4 ms·

As another problem of applied CS I also suggest to add "Character Encoding" to the list of strongly underestimated complex problems :)

nfrankel 4y ago
I wholeheartedly agree. I was about to list it as a reference only, then I forgot.
asicsp 4y ago
Here's a classic article on this topic: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/10/08/the-absolute-minimum-every-software-developer-absolutely-positively-must-know-about-unicode-and-character-sets-no-excuses/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/10/08/the-absolute-minim...
jacknews 4y ago
Agreed, and also just text in general, internationalization, line-breaks, horizontal vs vertical text, left-right vs right-left, etc, etc. OTOH that starts getting quite "application oriented" and where do you draw the line? compsci is perhaps more about computation and how to achieve it, analyze it, etc, and in that case even dates and times should not be in the list, being an "application" domain concern.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  > where do you draw the line? How many clients do you have, or want to have? How many bugs do you want them to suffer? My language is written Right-to-Left. Jira couldn't care less about my market, so I don't use it, even though I could trivially add support myself in Firefox's User CSS file. But there are another 300 million people who speak RTL languages they are ignoring along with me. Is 300 million people a small market? "But everybody in tech speaks English" they argue. Being _able_ to use their product in a language foreign to myself doesn't mean that I'll _choose_ to use their product given alternatives.
  - jacknews 4y ago
    I meant where do you draw the line as to what is "computer science", and what is domain and application-specific problem-solving? Of course your language has just as much right to be dealt with correctly in computers as every other, but that's probably a separate conversation about the right to equal access to technology whatever the economics (A cause I agree with), etc, etc.
    - dotancohen 4y ago
      > I meant where do you draw the line as to what is "computer science", and what is domain and application-specific problem-solving? Oh, I see. I actually think that the line is clear. Solving a practical problem or bug? That's not computer science. Developing or improving a generally useful algorithm or technique, such as a sort function? That _is_ computer science. Science is improving our understanding of how things work or can be made to work. Actually putting that knowledge to application is Engineering (or tinkering).
- divbzero 4y ago
  Related: Text Rendering Hates You - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21105625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21105625 - Sept 2019 (170 comments)
belter 4y ago
More than just Encoding the whole G11n is definitely the hardest. Most do barely L10n, some do make it to proper I18n. Proper G11n...Maybe the fingers of one hand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_local...

nfrankel 4y ago

I wholeheartedly agree. I was about to list it as a reference only, then I forgot.

asicsp 4y ago

Here's a classic article on this topic: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/10/08/the-absolute-minimum-every-software-developer-absolutely-positively-must-know-about-unicode-and-character-sets-no-excuses/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/10/08/the-absolute-minim...

jacknews 4y ago

Agreed, and also just text in general, internationalization, line-breaks, horizontal vs vertical text, left-right vs right-left, etc, etc. OTOH that starts getting quite "application oriented" and where do you draw the line? compsci is perhaps more about computation and how to achieve it, analyze it, etc, and in that case even dates and times should not be in the list, being an "application" domain concern.

dotancohen 4y ago
> where do you draw the line? How many clients do you have, or want to have? How many bugs do you want them to suffer? My language is written Right-to-Left. Jira couldn't care less about my market, so I don't use it, even though I could trivially add support myself in Firefox's User CSS file. But there are another 300 million people who speak RTL languages they are ignoring along with me. Is 300 million people a small market? "But everybody in tech speaks English" they argue. Being _able_ to use their product in a language foreign to myself doesn't mean that I'll _choose_ to use their product given alternatives.
- jacknews 4y ago
  I meant where do you draw the line as to what is "computer science", and what is domain and application-specific problem-solving? Of course your language has just as much right to be dealt with correctly in computers as every other, but that's probably a separate conversation about the right to equal access to technology whatever the economics (A cause I agree with), etc, etc.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    > I meant where do you draw the line as to what is "computer science", and what is domain and application-specific problem-solving? Oh, I see. I actually think that the line is clear. Solving a practical problem or bug? That's not computer science. Developing or improving a generally useful algorithm or technique, such as a sort function? That _is_ computer science. Science is improving our understanding of how things work or can be made to work. Actually putting that knowledge to application is Engineering (or tinkering).
divbzero 4y ago
Related: Text Rendering Hates You - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21105625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21105625 - Sept 2019 (170 comments)

belter 4y ago

More than just Encoding the whole G11n is definitely the hardest. Most do barely L10n, some do make it to proper I18n. Proper G11n...Maybe the fingers of one hand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_local...