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It's breeze of fresh air compared to most code of conducts which sound like communist propaganda. This and the Linux code of conflict.

kennywinker 4y ago
I'm not sure what you think communism is, but: 2. Then, love your neighbor as yourself. 5. Do not steal. 6. Do not covet. 14. Relieve the poor. 15. Clothe the naked. 18. Be a help in times of trouble. 38. Be not lazy. Those are all pretty deeply in line with marxism. Jesus was a communist, after all.
- homieg33 4y ago
  Free will
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    42. Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself. 59. Fulfill not the desires of the flesh; hate your own will. 60. Obey in all things the commands of those whom God has placed in authority over you even though they (which God forbid) should act otherwise, mindful of the Lord's precept, "Do what they say, but not what they do." I'm not seeing a lot of room for free will in this document.
    - michaelsbradley 4y ago
      Human freedom is the freedom to do good, not license to do whatever you want to do or can do.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        Freedom to do good? That's already been covered: 42. Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself. That's not your freedom or your will, that's god's doing. Or so this document says. So by your definition, there is no free will in this document.
        michaelsbradley 4y ago
        Not at all. Whether one chooses good or evil, it is an exercise of one’s free will; but the purpose of human freedom (what it is) is that a human person can choose the good. But what is “the good”? For a modern treatment from a Christian perspective see Veritatis splendor: https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/d...
    - d0100 4y ago
      Free will is being able to decide to let it go
- ciupicri 4y ago
  I was talking about the implementation, not what was it supposed to be like. I haven't seen something like "love your neighbor as yourself". On the other hand inclusion and diversity were important topics. Former communist countries have more women in STEM.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- jhgb 4y ago
  He must have some sort of weird US interpretation of communism because "most code of conducts [sic!]" say absolutely nothing about proletariat-bourgeoisie relations in society. If anything, they're an instrument of capitalism.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Substitute racial / identity references in place of proletariat/ bourgeoisie in Marx's ideas, and you have modern academia and left-of-left wing American politics in a nutshell. It's by design.
    - astrange 4y ago
      That comes from Hegel. You just think Marx invented dialectics because you (like everyone else) can’t understand Hegel. Note if they “take Marx and replace the concepts” it’s not secretly introducing Marxism, it’s another antithesis of Marxism, just like the right-wing ones.
  - astrange 4y ago
    I remember reading Vapor’s first code of conduct and feeling it’d been copied from an SDS rulebook. But that was New Left cultural stuff about marginalized people, not Marxist left. For instance there were at least two rules about “tone policing”, which doesn’t even make sense (what is there to tone police?) and also seems to defeat the purpose of a CoC since moderation is a kind of “tone policing”.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      I guess you mean this document? https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b211e9eebdd61f370/Documents/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b... The only bit I see about tone is “Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial” on a list of things they said they would NOT act on complaints about. I see nothing in there that isn’t obvious getting-along-with-others stuff. It still seems to me that it’s helpful to write those things out rather than have them unspoken. It would feel unjust and arbitrary to me if I was pushed out of a community for bad behavior but not pre-warned what was considered bad behavior. It would also feel unjust if i were to be pushed out of a community because people kept saying shitty stuff to me and I complained about the hostility and they said “we have no rules, so they didn’t break any, suck it up”.
- azth 4y ago
  Jesus Peace be upon him was not a communist. Islam (Submission) is not communism. All previous prophets and messengers were Muslims (Submitters) to God.
voxl 4y ago
Right, instead it's just Christian Fundamentalism, not like the U.S. doesn't have a problem with that
- ciupicri 4y ago
  It's not mandatory, while fundamentalism is way stricter.
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
  It does, but your left wing fundamentalists aint much different.

kennywinker 4y ago

I'm not sure what you think communism is, but: 2. Then, love your neighbor as yourself. 5. Do not steal. 6. Do not covet. 14. Relieve the poor. 15. Clothe the naked. 18. Be a help in times of trouble. 38. Be not lazy. Those are all pretty deeply in line with marxism. Jesus was a communist, after all.

homieg33 4y ago
Free will
- kennywinker 4y ago
  42. Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself. 59. Fulfill not the desires of the flesh; hate your own will. 60. Obey in all things the commands of those whom God has placed in authority over you even though they (which God forbid) should act otherwise, mindful of the Lord's precept, "Do what they say, but not what they do." I'm not seeing a lot of room for free will in this document.
  - michaelsbradley 4y ago
    Human freedom is the freedom to do good, not license to do whatever you want to do or can do.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      Freedom to do good? That's already been covered: 42. Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself. That's not your freedom or your will, that's god's doing. Or so this document says. So by your definition, there is no free will in this document.
      - michaelsbradley 4y ago
        Not at all. Whether one chooses good or evil, it is an exercise of one’s free will; but the purpose of human freedom (what it is) is that a human person can choose the good. But what is “the good”? For a modern treatment from a Christian perspective see Veritatis splendor: https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/d...
  - d0100 4y ago
    Free will is being able to decide to let it go
ciupicri 4y ago
I was talking about the implementation, not what was it supposed to be like. I haven't seen something like "love your neighbor as yourself". On the other hand inclusion and diversity were important topics. Former communist countries have more women in STEM.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jhgb 4y ago
He must have some sort of weird US interpretation of communism because "most code of conducts [sic!]" say absolutely nothing about proletariat-bourgeoisie relations in society. If anything, they're an instrument of capitalism.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Substitute racial / identity references in place of proletariat/ bourgeoisie in Marx's ideas, and you have modern academia and left-of-left wing American politics in a nutshell. It's by design.
  - astrange 4y ago
    That comes from Hegel. You just think Marx invented dialectics because you (like everyone else) can’t understand Hegel. Note if they “take Marx and replace the concepts” it’s not secretly introducing Marxism, it’s another antithesis of Marxism, just like the right-wing ones.
- astrange 4y ago
  I remember reading Vapor’s first code of conduct and feeling it’d been copied from an SDS rulebook. But that was New Left cultural stuff about marginalized people, not Marxist left. For instance there were at least two rules about “tone policing”, which doesn’t even make sense (what is there to tone police?) and also seems to defeat the purpose of a CoC since moderation is a kind of “tone policing”.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    I guess you mean this document? https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b211e9eebdd61f370/Documents/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b... The only bit I see about tone is “Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial” on a list of things they said they would NOT act on complaints about. I see nothing in there that isn’t obvious getting-along-with-others stuff. It still seems to me that it’s helpful to write those things out rather than have them unspoken. It would feel unjust and arbitrary to me if I was pushed out of a community for bad behavior but not pre-warned what was considered bad behavior. It would also feel unjust if i were to be pushed out of a community because people kept saying shitty stuff to me and I complained about the hostility and they said “we have no rules, so they didn’t break any, suck it up”.
azth 4y ago
Jesus Peace be upon him was not a communist. Islam (Submission) is not communism. All previous prophets and messengers were Muslims (Submitters) to God.

voxl 4y ago

Right, instead it's just Christian Fundamentalism, not like the U.S. doesn't have a problem with that

ciupicri 4y ago
It's not mandatory, while fundamentalism is way stricter.
Dma54rhs 4y ago
It does, but your left wing fundamentalists aint much different.