4 ms·

> Suburban single-family homes are specifically an elitist policy. Prior to the widespread development of suburban single family homes post WWII, most American

by tharne 4y ago

> Suburban single-family homes are specifically an elitist policy. Prior to the widespread development of suburban single family homes post WWII, most Americans outside of those in rural areas could not afford to home their own home. Suburbs are the exact opposite of an elitist policy, and in fact the overwhelming majority of Americans, including a majority of immigrants, live in the suburbs.

nosianu 4y ago
An anecdote from Nazi Germany from the town I grew up in. The Nazis did exactly the same! As part of their program - similar to what Putin wants to do now? - to become self-sufficient, among many other projects, they built a very large chemical fiber factory into the middle of underdeveloped Thuringia. That's the German state just above Bavaria. https://www.all-neumann.de/rud-zellwolle.html https://www.all-neumann.de/rud-zellwolle.html For the thousands of new workers, only some of which could be sourced from the local population, they build the equivalent to American suburbs, in 1935. A few pictures, old black and white: https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/H5NXR6CAX2MZ746Y4E25IVY4GFASRJ6J https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/H5NXR6CAX2M... https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/2GD55POKL3R735R4NG3JCRGG3AUJTBRE https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/2GD55POKL3R... https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/UNFBR42B35MR6UQGLNGJQRZJKB7BF2SG https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/UNFBR42B35M... The factory, by the way, even back in the 1930s included two olympic-size swimming pools, one heated (by the next door factory coal power plant) and one with waves: https://www.all-neumann.de/images3/Schwarza_119674.jpg https://www.all-neumann.de/images3/Schwarza_119674.jpg That suburb still exists, with a lot of kind of equal double-houses surrounded by a lot of garden. Google maps, you can see how all houses and plots are similar: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.6840376,11.3145743,413m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@50.6840376,11.3145743,413m/data... Until after reunification they could still walk for shopping in little stores, Schwarza, a tiny place at the edge of which the new houses were built, even had a butcher shop. To get to the factory could be done by bike leisurely within ten minutes. However, in my old hometown (Rudolstadt) industry and houses often were right next to one another. There were quite a few of those, and they were in the city or at the edges, next to houses and villas. There's an x-ray tube factory (https://new.siemens.com/global/en/company/about/history/stories/siemens-reiniger-werke.html https://new.siemens.com/global/en/company/about/history/stor...) and quite a few other industries, beginning early 20th century. I don't know if those various factories were at the edge of town in the 1920s, but even if they were, it can't have been very long that it all got a bit mixed. Today we have zoning too, kind of, "Gewerbegebiet" (industrial park) is where you have to go with your manufacturing business these days. We now have very similar discussions about more mixing, example (German): "Architect recommends more mixed use areas" -- https://www.nw.de/lokal/bielefeld/mitte/21979129_Architekt-empfiehlt-Wohn-und-Gewerbegebiete-mehr-zu-mischen.html https://www.nw.de/lokal/bielefeld/mitte/21979129_Architekt-e... But also the opposite, "Please don't mix" -- https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article518393/Bitte-nicht-mischen.html https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article518393/Bitte-nicht-mis...
pru567 4y ago
Part of the attraction of the suburbs is that most US cities aren't very compelling. Its not like the choice is a Cleveland suburb vs Barcelona; its a Cleveland suburb vs Cleveland. Neither choice is all that great.
- tharne 4y ago
  That's fair.
drewcoo 4y ago
> . . . post WWII[1], most Americans outside of those in rural areas[2] could not afford to home their own home[3]. Suburbs are the exact opposite of an elitist policy[4], and in fact the overwhelming majority of Americans . . . live in the suburbs[5]. [1] Note that home prices wobbled a bit but were relatively even from the recovery after WWI and the flu through the early 60s. Income over that time increased significantly (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16-05intax.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16-05intax.pdf). Things change rapidly after that. I think it suggests a more complicated situation than "it all changed post WWII." https://voxeu.org/article/home-prices-1870 https://voxeu.org/article/home-prices-1870 [2] About half of the country. Nothing like today. https://getrawmilk.com/content/urbanization-usa-rural-vs-urban-population-timeline https://getrawmilk.com/content/urbanization-usa-rural-vs-urb... [3] Affordable because of VA and FHA loans after the war. And increasing wages. And flat housing prices. [4] Actually, the FHA (#3) mainstreamed redlining. That's pretty darned elitist. https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/mapmaker-redlining-united-states https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/mapmaker-r... [5] We're mostly suburban in the same way we're all middle class, smart, and attractive: self-description, but not any objective measure. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/u-s-is-majority-suburban-but-doesn-t-define-suburb https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/u-s-is-ma...

by tharne 4y ago

nosianu 4y ago

An anecdote from Nazi Germany from the town I grew up in. The Nazis did exactly the same! As part of their program - similar to what Putin wants to do now? - to become self-sufficient, among many other projects, they built a very large chemical fiber factory into the middle of underdeveloped Thuringia. That's the German state just above Bavaria. https://www.all-neumann.de/rud-zellwolle.html https://www.all-neumann.de/rud-zellwolle.html For the thousands of new workers, only some of which could be sourced from the local population, they build the equivalent to American suburbs, in 1935. A few pictures, old black and white: https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/H5NXR6CAX2MZ746Y4E25IVY4GFASRJ6J https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/H5NXR6CAX2M... https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/2GD55POKL3R735R4NG3JCRGG3AUJTBRE https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/2GD55POKL3R... https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/UNFBR42B35MR6UQGLNGJQRZJKB7BF2SG https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/UNFBR42B35M... The factory, by the way, even back in the 1930s included two olympic-size swimming pools, one heated (by the next door factory coal power plant) and one with waves: https://www.all-neumann.de/images3/Schwarza_119674.jpg https://www.all-neumann.de/images3/Schwarza_119674.jpg That suburb still exists, with a lot of kind of equal double-houses surrounded by a lot of garden. Google maps, you can see how all houses and plots are similar: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.6840376,11.3145743,413m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@50.6840376,11.3145743,413m/data... Until after reunification they could still walk for shopping in little stores, Schwarza, a tiny place at the edge of which the new houses were built, even had a butcher shop. To get to the factory could be done by bike leisurely within ten minutes. However, in my old hometown (Rudolstadt) industry and houses often were right next to one another. There were quite a few of those, and they were in the city or at the edges, next to houses and villas. There's an x-ray tube factory (https://new.siemens.com/global/en/company/about/history/stories/siemens-reiniger-werke.html https://new.siemens.com/global/en/company/about/history/stor...) and quite a few other industries, beginning early 20th century. I don't know if those various factories were at the edge of town in the 1920s, but even if they were, it can't have been very long that it all got a bit mixed. Today we have zoning too, kind of, "Gewerbegebiet" (industrial park) is where you have to go with your manufacturing business these days. We now have very similar discussions about more mixing, example (German): "Architect recommends more mixed use areas" -- https://www.nw.de/lokal/bielefeld/mitte/21979129_Architekt-empfiehlt-Wohn-und-Gewerbegebiete-mehr-zu-mischen.html https://www.nw.de/lokal/bielefeld/mitte/21979129_Architekt-e... But also the opposite, "Please don't mix" -- https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article518393/Bitte-nicht-mischen.html https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article518393/Bitte-nicht-mis...

pru567 4y ago

Part of the attraction of the suburbs is that most US cities aren't very compelling. Its not like the choice is a Cleveland suburb vs Barcelona; its a Cleveland suburb vs Cleveland. Neither choice is all that great.

tharne 4y ago
That's fair.

drewcoo 4y ago

> . . . post WWII[1], most Americans outside of those in rural areas[2] could not afford to home their own home[3]. Suburbs are the exact opposite of an elitist policy[4], and in fact the overwhelming majority of Americans . . . live in the suburbs[5]. [1] Note that home prices wobbled a bit but were relatively even from the recovery after WWI and the flu through the early 60s. Income over that time increased significantly (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16-05intax.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16-05intax.pdf). Things change rapidly after that. I think it suggests a more complicated situation than "it all changed post WWII." https://voxeu.org/article/home-prices-1870 https://voxeu.org/article/home-prices-1870 [2] About half of the country. Nothing like today. https://getrawmilk.com/content/urbanization-usa-rural-vs-urban-population-timeline https://getrawmilk.com/content/urbanization-usa-rural-vs-urb... [3] Affordable because of VA and FHA loans after the war. And increasing wages. And flat housing prices. [4] Actually, the FHA (#3) mainstreamed redlining. That's pretty darned elitist. https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/mapmaker-redlining-united-states https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/mapmaker-r... [5] We're mostly suburban in the same way we're all middle class, smart, and attractive: self-description, but not any objective measure. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/u-s-is-majority-suburban-but-doesn-t-define-suburb https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/u-s-is-ma...