4 ms·

Police is racist in USA. Let's abolish the police. That will surely make things great. Zoning sucks in USA. Let's abolish zoning, then everything will be great

by ajuc 4y ago

Police is racist in USA. Let's abolish the police. That will surely make things great. Zoning sucks in USA. Let's abolish zoning, then everything will be great. What's wrong with you people? Just fix what's broken. You don't throw away your home when a window is broken.

zip1234 4y ago
Police have no obvious replacement. Getting rid of zoning has obvious replacement, which is rules to regulate the negative externalities that zoning was supposed to address, but has failed miserably. I don't think anyone seriously advocating for getting rid of zoning doesn't have an idea for a replacement.
- ajuc 4y ago
  > rules to regulate the negative externalities that zoning was supposed to address, but has failed miserably But that's zoning? Zoning doesn't need to be "only suburbs allowed here" or "only factories allowed here". In fact zoning in Europe usually is the opposite: "if you want to build 1000 houses here you have to also build a school, a library, park, healthcare and a nursery within 3 km".
voisin 4y ago
> What’s wrong with you people? just fix what’s broken. The process for fixing is significantly more complicated than the process for starting fresh. Trying to make even minor changes gets bogged down in essentially the same magnitude of bureaucracy as starting from scratch. Endless public consultation, money interest lobbying, etc. the effort is almost never worth it for minor changes. Your attitude of incrementalism is, IMHO, why we can’t have nice things today. When something’s obviously broken, sometimes it is best to admit it was a failed experiment and try again.
- ajuc 4y ago
  > The process for fixing is significantly more complicated than the process for starting fresh. That's usually the opinion of people who didn't actually thought through the whole process of starting fresh. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    Agree, no one I've ever met who actually accomplished serious work would ever say something like that.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
police is a relatively recent invention, 2-3 centuries ago many countries didn't have it. Now they are getting involved in more and more interpersonal issues, and I am not clear that the same people should be dealing with murderers and get called into schools when kids do something nasty
- ajuc 4y ago
  The main problem with police in USA is that everybody can have a gun so police carries guns and are quick to shoot. The solution isn't to abolish/defund/whatever the police. It's to introduce gun control. Police in my country uses guns against people less than 20 times a year. About 100 times if you include shooting into air or against animals. Because nobody has guns - criminals don't have guns (it just increases stakes for no benefit). So police don't carry guns and aren't in hurry to shoot. So there's almost no gun deaths. So everybody is much more chill when a crime happens. People will still be racist but at least it doesn't convert into deaths so easily.
otikik 4y ago
“Defund the police” is not the same as “abolish the police”; it means that the piece dedicated to police departments in a lot of places is overblown, taking away other options, like social workers. That sounds like “fixing what’s broken” to me.

by ajuc 4y ago

zip1234 4y ago

Police have no obvious replacement. Getting rid of zoning has obvious replacement, which is rules to regulate the negative externalities that zoning was supposed to address, but has failed miserably. I don't think anyone seriously advocating for getting rid of zoning doesn't have an idea for a replacement.

ajuc 4y ago
> rules to regulate the negative externalities that zoning was supposed to address, but has failed miserably But that's zoning? Zoning doesn't need to be "only suburbs allowed here" or "only factories allowed here". In fact zoning in Europe usually is the opposite: "if you want to build 1000 houses here you have to also build a school, a library, park, healthcare and a nursery within 3 km".

voisin 4y ago

> What’s wrong with you people? just fix what’s broken. The process for fixing is significantly more complicated than the process for starting fresh. Trying to make even minor changes gets bogged down in essentially the same magnitude of bureaucracy as starting from scratch. Endless public consultation, money interest lobbying, etc. the effort is almost never worth it for minor changes. Your attitude of incrementalism is, IMHO, why we can’t have nice things today. When something’s obviously broken, sometimes it is best to admit it was a failed experiment and try again.

ajuc 4y ago
> The process for fixing is significantly more complicated than the process for starting fresh. That's usually the opinion of people who didn't actually thought through the whole process of starting fresh. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  Agree, no one I've ever met who actually accomplished serious work would ever say something like that.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

police is a relatively recent invention, 2-3 centuries ago many countries didn't have it. Now they are getting involved in more and more interpersonal issues, and I am not clear that the same people should be dealing with murderers and get called into schools when kids do something nasty

ajuc 4y ago
The main problem with police in USA is that everybody can have a gun so police carries guns and are quick to shoot. The solution isn't to abolish/defund/whatever the police. It's to introduce gun control. Police in my country uses guns against people less than 20 times a year. About 100 times if you include shooting into air or against animals. Because nobody has guns - criminals don't have guns (it just increases stakes for no benefit). So police don't carry guns and aren't in hurry to shoot. So there's almost no gun deaths. So everybody is much more chill when a crime happens. People will still be racist but at least it doesn't convert into deaths so easily.

otikik 4y ago

“Defund the police” is not the same as “abolish the police”; it means that the piece dedicated to police departments in a lot of places is overblown, taking away other options, like social workers. That sounds like “fixing what’s broken” to me.