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> Over the years I've noticed basically every zoning argument turns emotional like this That's because it is an emotional issue for most of us. We put our weal

by tharne 4y ago

> Over the years I've noticed basically every zoning argument turns emotional like this That's because it is an emotional issue for most of us. We put our wealth, our time, and our energy into buying a house and finding/creating a community to raise our kids in. We're happy with with we live, then someone comes in, waves their credentials and says, "You losers are doing it all wrong, let me 'fix' your town". We don't want our towns fixed. If we thought they were bad, we wouldn't have moved their in the first place.

nrr 4y ago
The challenge is allowing communities to grow. You have or want kids, which means that, without imparting a value judgment, you've contributed to some increase in the population. Likewise, your neighbors surely have had kids of their own, or they're planning to, which means that they're similarly contributing to population growth. All of this means that there will need to be more places to live. My question is: Where will your kids and your neighbors' kids live? As you advance in age, how does this play out when you'll want (or perhaps even need) them nearby to help? If/when your kids move away, will they be able to afford to move back? It's probably best that you don't have the answers to those right now, but they're worth thinking about in a climate where the law of supply matters more.
- doktorhladnjak 4y ago
  As is always the answer in these sort of discussions, "somewhere else" or "not in my backyard"
- tharne 4y ago
  The birth rate in most developed countries is below replacement and only decreasing, so this argument doesn't really hold much weight. It may have in the 1980's but times have changed.
  - nrr 4y ago
    Forgive me. I'm unsure what this has to do with the fact that you, your wife, and n kids makes n+2 people. Is that not population growth?
scythe 4y ago
These aren't towns at issue. The housing problem principally occurs in metropolitan areas with more than 3 million people that have existed for more than half a century, and in most cases longer. Many of those areas have a high incidence of homelessness, regular evictions and a trend of housing prices such that the per-unit cost to live there has grown much faster than inflation for the past several decades. Therefore, people are trying to address the real, visible problems in these major cities. A major city is a complex system, and in order to manage it, you need people with credentials, and not incurious dismissals like "stop moving to California".

by tharne 4y ago

nrr 4y ago

The challenge is allowing communities to grow. You have or want kids, which means that, without imparting a value judgment, you've contributed to some increase in the population. Likewise, your neighbors surely have had kids of their own, or they're planning to, which means that they're similarly contributing to population growth. All of this means that there will need to be more places to live. My question is: Where will your kids and your neighbors' kids live? As you advance in age, how does this play out when you'll want (or perhaps even need) them nearby to help? If/when your kids move away, will they be able to afford to move back? It's probably best that you don't have the answers to those right now, but they're worth thinking about in a climate where the law of supply matters more.

doktorhladnjak 4y ago
As is always the answer in these sort of discussions, "somewhere else" or "not in my backyard"
tharne 4y ago
The birth rate in most developed countries is below replacement and only decreasing, so this argument doesn't really hold much weight. It may have in the 1980's but times have changed.
- nrr 4y ago
  Forgive me. I'm unsure what this has to do with the fact that you, your wife, and n kids makes n+2 people. Is that not population growth?

scythe 4y ago

These aren't towns at issue. The housing problem principally occurs in metropolitan areas with more than 3 million people that have existed for more than half a century, and in most cases longer. Many of those areas have a high incidence of homelessness, regular evictions and a trend of housing prices such that the per-unit cost to live there has grown much faster than inflation for the past several decades. Therefore, people are trying to address the real, visible problems in these major cities. A major city is a complex system, and in order to manage it, you need people with credentials, and not incurious dismissals like "stop moving to California".