4 ms·

So, don’t worry, it all work out? Vast wealth being sucked up by a few people while huge swaths of society have little to no ability to handle a $1000 financial

by cudgy 4y ago

So, don’t worry, it all work out? Vast wealth being sucked up by a few people while huge swaths of society have little to no ability to handle a $1000 financial hit? Passing the big ball of wealth between a few select people and families over history is acceptable? The fallacy is in thinking that society will always be benevolent and never needs to be corrected or reconsidered.

badRNG 4y ago
What the peasants didn't understand was that having a Monarch is fine. In fact, I bet in a few generations it will be a totally different royal family running the show.
andi999 4y ago
Na, just introduce a social safety net, like most of europe had for some time.
- cudgy 4y ago
  So, put “those people” in the Matrix, so they won’t be a problem instead of addressing the real problem of a lopsided economic system is the answer?
  - andi999 4y ago
    Lopsided economic system is not a problem, it is a feature.
  - maigret 4y ago
    No, the European system allows you to use that for studying for little money, learning a new job etc as well. It’s not perfect but (western) Europe hasn’t seen this huge inequality growth in the last decades AFAIK
jmyeet 4y ago
Wealth inequality is a separate issue to the dominance of Google. I agree there should be universal health care and a social safety net. I think shelter in the form of housing should be considered a human right. A budget shortfall is built into your existence. This is to keep you a compliant worker. But Americans aren't ready to have that conversation so my perspective is you're wasting your breath by having it. Half the country will die on the hill of stopping Jeff Bezos paying slightly more in taxes. The only solution to this is labor organization. The government won't help you. Republicans are psychotic. Democrats are just the less terrible, feckless alternative who aren't actually interested in doing anything. Remember when Obama had a Senate supermajority and could've codified Roe v. Wade? But I'm just not holding my breath that anything will materially change anytime soon and it's our fault.
oceanplexian 4y ago
Wealth isn’t sucked out of anything. If I build a product and sell if for $20, but it creates $100 in value (Let’s say some software that saves a person 4 hours a day of manual labor) I created $80 worth of value, for <$20 worth of profit, minus my costs. When people who have benefitted from those productivity benefits then turn around and whine about how they aren’t getting “their share” of the <$20, or complain how it is somehow wrong that the wealthy can spend or transfer wealth however they like, I can’t help but cringe. The real societal problem is the modern education system is failing to educate people in basic economics.
claytongulick 4y ago
This way of looking at things assumes that wealth is a finite resource, and that by some people having a lot it is depriving others. Wealth doesn't work like that, though. It's not a zero sum game. Wealth is infinite, and can be created from nothing by providing a good or service that people need. I had a friend who was a multimillionaire, got there by building stone walls. Another friend who's an immigrant, worth over ten million, got there by making custom iron and steel windows and doors. I have a friend who's worth over a million, got there by working hard and saving his whole life. Another friend who's worth over thirty million, got there by making web sites for auto dealerships. Another one who's worth a bit over a million, got there by risking his life savings on opening up a winery. A former neighbor had a multi-million dollar home. Also an immigrant. Got there by cleaning restaurant grease traps. I could go on. Wealth can be created from nothing. From something as simple as an idea. The only qualifying factor is that you have to make something that other people want. It can be anything, a wall, a song, a good bottle of wine, an iron door, a NFT (ugh), ...anything. There's no limit to wealth. Our poorest today live like kings compared to those in poverty 100 years ago. Because we've created massive, overwhelming wealth in this country. And there's no end in sight. All we need is the willingness to do it. To spend our time building up rather than tearing down. Looking at someone's wealth and saying "that's not fair, we should destroy that and give it to others" is a juvenile solution that destroys societies. I understand the temptation though. It's harder to create than to destroy. It takes more intellectual rigor. It takes a leap into self ownership and responsibility. That's hard to do when we've been taught from a young age that our situation is someone else's fault. Class warfare is a tool that's used by conmen to gain short term power. It ends up destroying everything.
- cudgy 4y ago
  > I had a friend who was a multimillionaire, got there by building stone walls. Your friend did not make that much money building stone walls. Your friend made that money acting as a middleman hiring teams of low paid workers (likely undocumented migrants) to build the stone walls while he received a handsome cut for little effort. > Another friend who's an immigrant, worth over ten million, got there by making custom iron and steel windows and doors. Not sure why you mention them being an immigrant. Are immigrants less capable than non-immigrants? Anyway, same rule applies. Your friend did not do this work; they hired people (most likely undocumented immigrants) and paid them under the table. They simply act as a middleman too, extracting the vast majority of the wealth while paying peanuts to the workers. I bet both of your friends got government loans to go to college and took advantage of the free government CARE loans and possibly even received huge tax breaks for his/her business; virtually all of this government money is unavailable to his workers.

by cudgy 4y ago

badRNG 4y ago

What the peasants didn't understand was that having a Monarch is fine. In fact, I bet in a few generations it will be a totally different royal family running the show.

andi999 4y ago

Na, just introduce a social safety net, like most of europe had for some time.

cudgy 4y ago
So, put “those people” in the Matrix, so they won’t be a problem instead of addressing the real problem of a lopsided economic system is the answer?
- andi999 4y ago
  Lopsided economic system is not a problem, it is a feature.
- maigret 4y ago
  No, the European system allows you to use that for studying for little money, learning a new job etc as well. It’s not perfect but (western) Europe hasn’t seen this huge inequality growth in the last decades AFAIK

jmyeet 4y ago

Wealth inequality is a separate issue to the dominance of Google. I agree there should be universal health care and a social safety net. I think shelter in the form of housing should be considered a human right. A budget shortfall is built into your existence. This is to keep you a compliant worker. But Americans aren't ready to have that conversation so my perspective is you're wasting your breath by having it. Half the country will die on the hill of stopping Jeff Bezos paying slightly more in taxes. The only solution to this is labor organization. The government won't help you. Republicans are psychotic. Democrats are just the less terrible, feckless alternative who aren't actually interested in doing anything. Remember when Obama had a Senate supermajority and could've codified Roe v. Wade? But I'm just not holding my breath that anything will materially change anytime soon and it's our fault.

oceanplexian 4y ago

Wealth isn’t sucked out of anything. If I build a product and sell if for $20, but it creates $100 in value (Let’s say some software that saves a person 4 hours a day of manual labor) I created $80 worth of value, for <$20 worth of profit, minus my costs. When people who have benefitted from those productivity benefits then turn around and whine about how they aren’t getting “their share” of the <$20, or complain how it is somehow wrong that the wealthy can spend or transfer wealth however they like, I can’t help but cringe. The real societal problem is the modern education system is failing to educate people in basic economics.

claytongulick 4y ago

This way of looking at things assumes that wealth is a finite resource, and that by some people having a lot it is depriving others. Wealth doesn't work like that, though. It's not a zero sum game. Wealth is infinite, and can be created from nothing by providing a good or service that people need. I had a friend who was a multimillionaire, got there by building stone walls. Another friend who's an immigrant, worth over ten million, got there by making custom iron and steel windows and doors. I have a friend who's worth over a million, got there by working hard and saving his whole life. Another friend who's worth over thirty million, got there by making web sites for auto dealerships. Another one who's worth a bit over a million, got there by risking his life savings on opening up a winery. A former neighbor had a multi-million dollar home. Also an immigrant. Got there by cleaning restaurant grease traps. I could go on. Wealth can be created from nothing. From something as simple as an idea. The only qualifying factor is that you have to make something that other people want. It can be anything, a wall, a song, a good bottle of wine, an iron door, a NFT (ugh), ...anything. There's no limit to wealth. Our poorest today live like kings compared to those in poverty 100 years ago. Because we've created massive, overwhelming wealth in this country. And there's no end in sight. All we need is the willingness to do it. To spend our time building up rather than tearing down. Looking at someone's wealth and saying "that's not fair, we should destroy that and give it to others" is a juvenile solution that destroys societies. I understand the temptation though. It's harder to create than to destroy. It takes more intellectual rigor. It takes a leap into self ownership and responsibility. That's hard to do when we've been taught from a young age that our situation is someone else's fault. Class warfare is a tool that's used by conmen to gain short term power. It ends up destroying everything.

cudgy 4y ago
> I had a friend who was a multimillionaire, got there by building stone walls. Your friend did not make that much money building stone walls. Your friend made that money acting as a middleman hiring teams of low paid workers (likely undocumented migrants) to build the stone walls while he received a handsome cut for little effort. > Another friend who's an immigrant, worth over ten million, got there by making custom iron and steel windows and doors. Not sure why you mention them being an immigrant. Are immigrants less capable than non-immigrants? Anyway, same rule applies. Your friend did not do this work; they hired people (most likely undocumented immigrants) and paid them under the table. They simply act as a middleman too, extracting the vast majority of the wealth while paying peanuts to the workers. I bet both of your friends got government loans to go to college and took advantage of the free government CARE loans and possibly even received huge tax breaks for his/her business; virtually all of this government money is unavailable to his workers.