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> 2 hours of free time for yourself every day is not bad. Two hours of free time to yourself is horrible. The fact that it's expected doesn't change that it's

by HWR_14 4y ago

> 2 hours of free time for yourself every day is not bad. Two hours of free time to yourself is horrible. The fact that it's expected doesn't change that it's a horrible answer. We need to reduce the amount of time we spend at work. Ironically, the best way to do that is to spend your early years working 24/7 to try to get wealthy enough that you can spend 4 hours a day doing meaningful work.

BeetleB 4y ago
Two hours of free uninterrupted time is actually pretty good. One can accomplish fairly significant things with that if they're disciplined and don't spend that time goofing off. I doubt most parents get two hours of free time though.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Spending time "goofing off" is invaluable. People need time for that too. There's no point in being mindlessly productive at all times.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    Two hours a day gives you plenty of time to goof off during the week. If you need to goof off every day then you are likely compensating for things that should be addressed. Saying as someone whose been there
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Maybe you are using "goof off" differently than I am, but I see no reason not to goof off every day. But you actually said "2 hours is plenty to get stuff done if you don't goof off". Now you're changing it to "2 hours a day gives you plenty of time to goof off."
      - BeetleB 4y ago
        You misinterpret. 2 hours a day is 14 hours a week. What I'm saying is that goofing off for 2-4 hours a week still gives you 10-12 hours a week to get a lot done. But if you need to goof off for an hour per day (as many do feel they need to), then there are likely underlying reasons - problems in your life causing distraction, procrastination, etc. If you can address those reasons, you'll get more time to do fun work. The book The Now Habit addresses similar themes.
gota 4y ago
>get wealthy enough that you can spend 4 hours a day doing meaningful work Sadly, for the absolute majority even a partial "early retirement" is unachievable regardless of how much or how hard they work
- giantg2 4y ago
  Even as someone with a decent job, I'm starting to doubt I can have an early partial retirement at 60. I think the majority of people aren't going to be able to retire at all, at least not above the poverty level.
burntoutfire 4y ago
Yep, I agree. Parenting in modern world while not being wealthy just sounds terrible. It's one huge regression from how it was done before we started civilization, and especially since we started modern living (with atomic families, mass loneliness, rootlessness, jobs devoid of meaning, spending most of the day at the job instead of at the house, jobs so complex that your child can't understand them and can't learn them from you). Amenities and state help such as free kindergardens are just a drop in a bucket and will not help with falling reproduction rates in any meaningful way.
- inawarminister 4y ago
  To be fair, yesteryears' solutions to that for the typical non-rich people were to outsource parenting to grandparents and family friends, which are still applicable now. ... And have the elder siblings help take care of the younger, but I don't know if that's acceptable at all nowadays in the West or if that's one way to get the CPS involved.
  - burntoutfire 4y ago
    > To be fair, yesteryears' solutions to that for the typical non-rich people were to outsource parenting to grandparents and family friends, which are still applicable now. It's way less aplicable because people move so much. Nowadays, not many people live around (say within 1 km distance) their extended family, whereas in pre-modern times it was the absolute norm. What's more, grandparents often lived in the same house and children were raised by multiple adults and not just their parents. The burden on parents was way lower.
david38 4y ago
To anyone who thinks two hours of free time is horrible - don’t have kids and don’t do anything big or great. I went to a pretty intense university to study computer science with a baby. I had zero free time. It was 100% class, study, kids, and barely any sleep - for FOUR years! All the people I know who do great things? Zero free time. They work like animals to fulfill dreams and responsibilities.
- Auracle 4y ago
  In that case those great things they’re doing is probably fulfilling their innate desires.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > All the people I know who do great things? Zero free time. The people I know who do great things? Seriously, they have free time. They have kids and don't feel bad about spending time with them. Maybe college isn't the best example for what the real world is like.
taylodl 4y ago
I think raising kids is meaningful work. Having raised 3 kids I can tell you I rarely had 2 hours of free time for myself, let alone having that kind of time every day! It's just not going to happen. Now that I've become an empty nester I have more time to myself than I probably ever had in my entire life! And I have great kids who've turned into awesome people that I can visit and enjoy doing things with. I would argue you reap what you sow. Put the time and work in now and enjoy the fruits later in life. Don't worry about silly things such as "free time."

by HWR_14 4y ago

BeetleB 4y ago

Two hours of free uninterrupted time is actually pretty good. One can accomplish fairly significant things with that if they're disciplined and don't spend that time goofing off. I doubt most parents get two hours of free time though.

HWR_14 4y ago
Spending time "goofing off" is invaluable. People need time for that too. There's no point in being mindlessly productive at all times.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  Two hours a day gives you plenty of time to goof off during the week. If you need to goof off every day then you are likely compensating for things that should be addressed. Saying as someone whose been there
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Maybe you are using "goof off" differently than I am, but I see no reason not to goof off every day. But you actually said "2 hours is plenty to get stuff done if you don't goof off". Now you're changing it to "2 hours a day gives you plenty of time to goof off."
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      You misinterpret. 2 hours a day is 14 hours a week. What I'm saying is that goofing off for 2-4 hours a week still gives you 10-12 hours a week to get a lot done. But if you need to goof off for an hour per day (as many do feel they need to), then there are likely underlying reasons - problems in your life causing distraction, procrastination, etc. If you can address those reasons, you'll get more time to do fun work. The book The Now Habit addresses similar themes.

gota 4y ago

>get wealthy enough that you can spend 4 hours a day doing meaningful work Sadly, for the absolute majority even a partial "early retirement" is unachievable regardless of how much or how hard they work

giantg2 4y ago
Even as someone with a decent job, I'm starting to doubt I can have an early partial retirement at 60. I think the majority of people aren't going to be able to retire at all, at least not above the poverty level.

burntoutfire 4y ago

Yep, I agree. Parenting in modern world while not being wealthy just sounds terrible. It's one huge regression from how it was done before we started civilization, and especially since we started modern living (with atomic families, mass loneliness, rootlessness, jobs devoid of meaning, spending most of the day at the job instead of at the house, jobs so complex that your child can't understand them and can't learn them from you). Amenities and state help such as free kindergardens are just a drop in a bucket and will not help with falling reproduction rates in any meaningful way.

inawarminister 4y ago
To be fair, yesteryears' solutions to that for the typical non-rich people were to outsource parenting to grandparents and family friends, which are still applicable now. ... And have the elder siblings help take care of the younger, but I don't know if that's acceptable at all nowadays in the West or if that's one way to get the CPS involved.
- burntoutfire 4y ago
  > To be fair, yesteryears' solutions to that for the typical non-rich people were to outsource parenting to grandparents and family friends, which are still applicable now. It's way less aplicable because people move so much. Nowadays, not many people live around (say within 1 km distance) their extended family, whereas in pre-modern times it was the absolute norm. What's more, grandparents often lived in the same house and children were raised by multiple adults and not just their parents. The burden on parents was way lower.

david38 4y ago

To anyone who thinks two hours of free time is horrible - don’t have kids and don’t do anything big or great. I went to a pretty intense university to study computer science with a baby. I had zero free time. It was 100% class, study, kids, and barely any sleep - for FOUR years! All the people I know who do great things? Zero free time. They work like animals to fulfill dreams and responsibilities.

Auracle 4y ago
In that case those great things they’re doing is probably fulfilling their innate desires.
HWR_14 4y ago
> All the people I know who do great things? Zero free time. The people I know who do great things? Seriously, they have free time. They have kids and don't feel bad about spending time with them. Maybe college isn't the best example for what the real world is like.

taylodl 4y ago

I think raising kids is meaningful work. Having raised 3 kids I can tell you I rarely had 2 hours of free time for myself, let alone having that kind of time every day! It's just not going to happen. Now that I've become an empty nester I have more time to myself than I probably ever had in my entire life! And I have great kids who've turned into awesome people that I can visit and enjoy doing things with. I would argue you reap what you sow. Put the time and work in now and enjoy the fruits later in life. Don't worry about silly things such as "free time."