4 ms·

Beauty is free. Urban infrastructure is not. Now, what was your point again?

rglullis 4y ago
Even small villages in southern European countries offer a better life than American suburbia. The point is exactly that: nice things (especially in the public arena) don't have to cost much - and this cost doesn't have to privatized.
- EUROCARE 4y ago
  Are you really sure about that? Southern Europe is not Germany, it doesn't have that famous high quality universal healthcare. Not even countries such as Italy are able to guarantee consistent quality - what you get in southern Italy will resemble Mexico or Thailand much more than Germany. Real estate costs a lot there compared to the US, and finding well paid work (or any work at all) is much harder. Anything you heard about EU public transit mostly doesn't apply in the south, you will need a car; but the roads aren't prepared for today's amount of traffic, and there's not enough money for maintenance nor construction.
- dgfitz 4y ago
  What a bullshit comment. Define “better”
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Better as "there is no money in the world that you can pay me and my wife to move to any American suburbs, while the only thing stopping us to go to the Cyclades or somewhere close to Braga (for now) is that she can not find some remote job. The places to live, by themselves, have all the infra we need. The problem is the lack of local jobs.
    - dgfitz 4y ago
      Oh so by better you mean COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE
      - rglullis 4y ago
        "Beauty is subjective" is one of the favorite rationalizations for those who are so used to live in ugliness that they forgot what a good life can be.
        dgfitz 4y ago
        Your logic is so flawed it’s almost endearing.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Why are you are trying to apply "logic" here? Do you want us to establish a formal system in order to discuss what would be "a better life" lived in different places? So, I'm sorry if you are disappointed because I am not giving you a "reason" to state that life in suburbia is so bad. All I can say is that I have (briefly) lived in the Boston suburbs and I've lived in cities of many different sizes before and - looking in retrospect - no place gave me a sense of hopeless dread as much as Newton. Yes, of course my first statement was "subjective" in the sense that it can not be formally measured or defined. Thing is, just like "beauty is subjective" but we all can still find things (and beings) with qualities that transcend time and cultures to the point of considering it objectively beautiful, there are some aspects of living in "traditional" urban environments that will never be replicated in American Suburbia, which makes life in Suburbia objectively worse.
        dgfitz 4y ago
        I could take your last sentence and flip urban and suburbia. Your argument has no substance.
        rglullis 4y ago
belligeront 4y ago
Suburban infrastructure is much more costly per resident than urban infrastructure. However, we massively subsidize suburban infrastructure and restrict urban environments with zoning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/03/05/sprawl-costs-the-public-more-than-twice-as-much-as-compact-development/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/03/05/sprawl-costs-the-publ...

Even small villages in southern European countries offer a better life than American suburbia. The point is exactly that: nice things (especially in the public arena) don't have to cost much - and this cost doesn't have to privatized.

EUROCARE 4y ago
Are you really sure about that? Southern Europe is not Germany, it doesn't have that famous high quality universal healthcare. Not even countries such as Italy are able to guarantee consistent quality - what you get in southern Italy will resemble Mexico or Thailand much more than Germany. Real estate costs a lot there compared to the US, and finding well paid work (or any work at all) is much harder. Anything you heard about EU public transit mostly doesn't apply in the south, you will need a car; but the roads aren't prepared for today's amount of traffic, and there's not enough money for maintenance nor construction.
dgfitz 4y ago
What a bullshit comment. Define “better”
- rglullis 4y ago
  Better as "there is no money in the world that you can pay me and my wife to move to any American suburbs, while the only thing stopping us to go to the Cyclades or somewhere close to Braga (for now) is that she can not find some remote job. The places to live, by themselves, have all the infra we need. The problem is the lack of local jobs.
  - dgfitz 4y ago
    Oh so by better you mean COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE
    - rglullis 4y ago
      "Beauty is subjective" is one of the favorite rationalizations for those who are so used to live in ugliness that they forgot what a good life can be.
      - dgfitz 4y ago
        Your logic is so flawed it’s almost endearing.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Why are you are trying to apply "logic" here? Do you want us to establish a formal system in order to discuss what would be "a better life" lived in different places? So, I'm sorry if you are disappointed because I am not giving you a "reason" to state that life in suburbia is so bad. All I can say is that I have (briefly) lived in the Boston suburbs and I've lived in cities of many different sizes before and - looking in retrospect - no place gave me a sense of hopeless dread as much as Newton. Yes, of course my first statement was "subjective" in the sense that it can not be formally measured or defined. Thing is, just like "beauty is subjective" but we all can still find things (and beings) with qualities that transcend time and cultures to the point of considering it objectively beautiful, there are some aspects of living in "traditional" urban environments that will never be replicated in American Suburbia, which makes life in Suburbia objectively worse.
        dgfitz 4y ago
        I could take your last sentence and flip urban and suburbia. Your argument has no substance.
        rglullis 4y ago

belligeront 4y ago

Suburban infrastructure is much more costly per resident than urban infrastructure. However, we massively subsidize suburban infrastructure and restrict urban environments with zoning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/03/05/sprawl-costs-the-public-more-than-twice-as-much-as-compact-development/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/03/05/sprawl-costs-the-publ...