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Millions of people are being conditioned by their religion to believe exactly this.

by trasz 4y ago

raxxorraxor 4y ago
The German constitution still views abortion as unjust towards the aborted child in any case. That doesn't mean it is an illegal practice. While the conservative party indeed has the name christian in their name, abortion never was a religious debate in Germany. Hell, I don't think neither is it in the US really. Sure, fundamentalists will reject it, but this isn't too relevant to overall opposition. Maybe I am wrong here, but it doesn't look like it at all.
- trasz 4y ago
  German court declared so half a century ago, but a quick look at the source ("(2) Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity") shows that this is not true - the only way one can conflict with the other is under assumption of catholic shibboleth of "life from conception", ie the theory that zygote is a person.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    Germany may be a bit behind here but the point at which a fetus transforms into a human isn't too relevant at first. Formally all abortions are unjust towards the (potential) person, no matter how early or late the abortion happens. The question of when human lives begins can be a religious argument but it may as well be not. In the same vein the valuation of human life to be precious is either religious or ideological as well.
    - trasz 4y ago
      >Formally all abortions are unjust towards the (potential) person Are contraceptives unjust towards the potential person too? >The question of when human lives begins can be a religious argument but it may as well be not. Sure - and in this case the court silently assumed the Catholic ideology.
      - raxxorraxor 4y ago
        > Are contraceptives unjust towards the potential person too? No, the line is drawn after that. It isn't my line either, just how the law sees it. You could argue this to be bad or not, some women complain that the bureaucracy around it made them feel like criminals but others argue that this is normal for German bureaucracy. > Sure - and in this case the court silently assumed the Catholic ideology. And probably protestant and orthodox Christians too. As well as Jews, Buddhists, Hindu and some others. While religion is a good predictor, the reasoning not necessarily is and there are also secular people against abortion as well. I think the court reasoned with a technicality of the law, but I am no expert.
        trasz 4y ago
        The line is drawn where it is because of false assumption based purely on Catholic mythology. Does German law prohibit revisiting past verdicts? >And probably protestant and orthodox Christians too. As well as Jews, Buddhists, Hindu and some others. To many protestants, Jews, Buddhists and Hindu the idea of "life from conception" is no different from what the idea of sacred cows is to Christians. >there are also secular people against abortion as well. There are also secular people against vaccines. There are no valid, non-religious arguments for "life from conception", it's just a superstition invented by a certain religion.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        Wrong or not, it is simply not true that these considerations are specifically based on catholic faith. I believe that is a primitive image of a fictitious enemy.
        trasz 4y ago
        So your response to a decision that can only be explained by the court assuming a logical fallacy invented by Catholics is that "it's simply not true"? :-D

Millions of people are being conditioned by their religion to believe exactly this.

by trasz 4y ago

Millions of people are being conditioned by their religion to believe exactly this.

The German constitution still views abortion as unjust towards the aborted child in any case. That doesn't mean it is an illegal practice. While the conservative party indeed has the name christian in their name, abortion never was a religious debate in Germany. Hell, I don't think neither is it in the US really. Sure, fundamentalists will reject it, but this isn't too relevant to overall opposition. Maybe I am wrong here, but it doesn't look like it at all.

trasz 4y ago
German court declared so half a century ago, but a quick look at the source ("(2) Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity") shows that this is not true - the only way one can conflict with the other is under assumption of catholic shibboleth of "life from conception", ie the theory that zygote is a person.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  Germany may be a bit behind here but the point at which a fetus transforms into a human isn't too relevant at first. Formally all abortions are unjust towards the (potential) person, no matter how early or late the abortion happens. The question of when human lives begins can be a religious argument but it may as well be not. In the same vein the valuation of human life to be precious is either religious or ideological as well.
  - trasz 4y ago
    >Formally all abortions are unjust towards the (potential) person Are contraceptives unjust towards the potential person too? >The question of when human lives begins can be a religious argument but it may as well be not. Sure - and in this case the court silently assumed the Catholic ideology.
    - raxxorraxor 4y ago
      > Are contraceptives unjust towards the potential person too? No, the line is drawn after that. It isn't my line either, just how the law sees it. You could argue this to be bad or not, some women complain that the bureaucracy around it made them feel like criminals but others argue that this is normal for German bureaucracy. > Sure - and in this case the court silently assumed the Catholic ideology. And probably protestant and orthodox Christians too. As well as Jews, Buddhists, Hindu and some others. While religion is a good predictor, the reasoning not necessarily is and there are also secular people against abortion as well. I think the court reasoned with a technicality of the law, but I am no expert.
      - trasz 4y ago
        The line is drawn where it is because of false assumption based purely on Catholic mythology. Does German law prohibit revisiting past verdicts? >And probably protestant and orthodox Christians too. As well as Jews, Buddhists, Hindu and some others. To many protestants, Jews, Buddhists and Hindu the idea of "life from conception" is no different from what the idea of sacred cows is to Christians. >there are also secular people against abortion as well. There are also secular people against vaccines. There are no valid, non-religious arguments for "life from conception", it's just a superstition invented by a certain religion.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        Wrong or not, it is simply not true that these considerations are specifically based on catholic faith. I believe that is a primitive image of a fictitious enemy.
        trasz 4y ago
        So your response to a decision that can only be explained by the court assuming a logical fallacy invented by Catholics is that "it's simply not true"? :-D