3 ms·

Someone else said it here, but in the US you can be forced to give up much more - the ultimate sacrifice - with selective service. So this, too, is a tough rub

Someone else said it here, but in the US you can be forced to give up much more - the ultimate sacrifice - with selective service. So this, too, is a tough rub on logic

lapcat 4y ago
Where "you" means specifically males aged 18-25. Coincidentally, 1973, the year Roe v. Wade was decided, was the last year anyone was drafted into the military.
- effingwewt 4y ago
  When in college taking 'Women in History' there were (for obvious reasons) all women, save me and two other men. Professor asked 'Who thinks men and women should have equal rights?' Everyone raised their hands. 'Who is willing to be drafted to protect those rights?' All 3 men, a handful of women raised their hands. The women in general didn't seem to think it was 'fair'. Professor continued- 'What about abortion rights? Should they be equal? Parental rights?' That set the room off. Made all of us uncomfortable, which was her point. There are double standards all aground, and we clearly as a society haven't figured these things out. And to be fair, it's a very difficult position for me- as a man, wanting equality for women but also being raised to be a 'gentleman', put women and children first. I think we should celebrate our differences, and try to iron out the rest.
  - dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
    >There are double standards all aground, and we clearly as a society haven't figured these things out. We (or at least most people) cannot _ever_ figure it out, is more accurate. From an evolutionary perspective the genders evolved as a division of labor of sorts. And with that came trade offs, so in the simplistic form equality cannot exist, without equality of responsibility. >it's a very difficult position for me- as a man, wanting equality for women but also being raised to be a 'gentleman', put women and children first. We are on the same page. Let start of by taking away the right of women and other imbeciles (which includes most men) to vote, lol. (sarcasm of course, I believe the whole voting/democracy as is normally practiced is a charade to placate the potentially mobbing nature of the masses)
dsr_ 4y ago
I think it's completely unremarkable that I can tell you [random HN person] that an argument is useless because people aren't interested in changing their minds, and you attempt to counter the argument.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  Friend, > Nevertheless, all of the above is useless, because the people who want to ban abortion are not, in general, sincere about saving humans life being their primary desire. Their primary desire is to have a subclass of humans who can be controlled and punished. Arguing with them about this is approximately useless; there are a few who are willing to discuss evidence and logic, but most are only displaying their allegiance to their tribe. All I did was accept your invitation to discuss evidence and logic - there is no value judgement on whether or not these rules are good - I personally don’t care what people do - but I do want people to be kind. The evidence is the selective service requirement - I’m not sure what else you asked for? Selective service is a direct example, objective to the ultimate degree, of a government using biological sex (go check the transgender section [0]) to make laws about risk of health / life and death decisions. Perhaps one should think who really is religious and incapable of logic and objectivity. [0] https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/ https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/

Someone else said it here, but in the US you can be forced to give up much more - the ultimate sacrifice - with selective service. So this, too, is a tough rub on logic

lapcat 4y ago

Where "you" means specifically males aged 18-25. Coincidentally, 1973, the year Roe v. Wade was decided, was the last year anyone was drafted into the military.

effingwewt 4y ago
When in college taking 'Women in History' there were (for obvious reasons) all women, save me and two other men. Professor asked 'Who thinks men and women should have equal rights?' Everyone raised their hands. 'Who is willing to be drafted to protect those rights?' All 3 men, a handful of women raised their hands. The women in general didn't seem to think it was 'fair'. Professor continued- 'What about abortion rights? Should they be equal? Parental rights?' That set the room off. Made all of us uncomfortable, which was her point. There are double standards all aground, and we clearly as a society haven't figured these things out. And to be fair, it's a very difficult position for me- as a man, wanting equality for women but also being raised to be a 'gentleman', put women and children first. I think we should celebrate our differences, and try to iron out the rest.
- dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
  >There are double standards all aground, and we clearly as a society haven't figured these things out. We (or at least most people) cannot _ever_ figure it out, is more accurate. From an evolutionary perspective the genders evolved as a division of labor of sorts. And with that came trade offs, so in the simplistic form equality cannot exist, without equality of responsibility. >it's a very difficult position for me- as a man, wanting equality for women but also being raised to be a 'gentleman', put women and children first. We are on the same page. Let start of by taking away the right of women and other imbeciles (which includes most men) to vote, lol. (sarcasm of course, I believe the whole voting/democracy as is normally practiced is a charade to placate the potentially mobbing nature of the masses)

dsr_ 4y ago

I think it's completely unremarkable that I can tell you [random HN person] that an argument is useless because people aren't interested in changing their minds, and you attempt to counter the argument.

anonymouse008 4y ago
Friend, > Nevertheless, all of the above is useless, because the people who want to ban abortion are not, in general, sincere about saving humans life being their primary desire. Their primary desire is to have a subclass of humans who can be controlled and punished. Arguing with them about this is approximately useless; there are a few who are willing to discuss evidence and logic, but most are only displaying their allegiance to their tribe. All I did was accept your invitation to discuss evidence and logic - there is no value judgement on whether or not these rules are good - I personally don’t care what people do - but I do want people to be kind. The evidence is the selective service requirement - I’m not sure what else you asked for? Selective service is a direct example, objective to the ultimate degree, of a government using biological sex (go check the transgender section [0]) to make laws about risk of health / life and death decisions. Perhaps one should think who really is religious and incapable of logic and objectivity. [0] https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/ https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/