6 ms·

I'm really disappointed with the conversation this has provoked. I was a fortunate recipient of this and I am delighted. I'm pleased about the money, that's gre

I'm really disappointed with the conversation this has provoked. I was a fortunate recipient of this and I am delighted. I'm pleased about the money, that's great. But more than that I was really thrilled to discover that I had indirectly worked on GitHub; because I love GitHub. I feel like I should qualify this further. I actually missed the original email and spent a day or so realising friends and open source colleagues were being recognised, whilst believing my own OSS wasn't in the mix. And I was pleased for them. I've been doing OSS for more than a decade. I enjoy it. I wish companies directly supported it, as paying for what you value is responsible and wise. GitHub just did that. Thank you GitHub. I appreciate it. This was a good thing. Well done!

fartcannon 4y ago
- nicce 4y ago
  This is quite problematic area indeed. If developers are happy for receiving 500$ for decades of their work, what justifies paying more in the future? I guess everything is good and there is no need to change anything. I get it, that it is the idea of open source, but the demands are increasing towards authors while they just use their spare time in most of the cases. More of their work is used to generate money, but authors are receiving barely anything.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > There's a Radiohead lab episode about money the gov gives the families of the people it kills. Hey fartcannon, I think you're saying that GitHub surprising open source developers with cash gifts is analogous to governments compensating families for killing relatives. My only thought on this is: I hope that you're okay, and if you need help I hope you'll seek it. It's been a tough few years.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - fartcannon 4y ago
  - account42 4y ago
    > I hope that you're okay, and if you need help I hope you'll seek it. This is really a disgusting way to try to demean the person you are talking to that is all too common. Instead of making thinly veiled attacks on the integrity of other commenters try responding to their arguments.
    - CharlesW 4y ago
      My comment was sincere, but if you haven't read the parent's other comments in the thread I can understand how it might seem callous. FWIW, I appreciate you calling me out just as I called the parent out — I can always do better. I have great empathy for the parent because I've also ascribed disproportionate malice to benign corporate behavior, and at that time it was helpful for me to be asked, "Hey, do you have other stuff going on that you might need to deal with?". I've also been on the other side of it, receiving death threats on behalf of a multinational corporation because of meaningless marketing or technical decisions. Both are shitty places to be. Take care.
- rglullis 4y ago
  > Microsoft thinks 550 will stop you from caring about copilot, EEEing vscode, etc. Could you find one developer that stopped caring about license violations just because of the money they received?
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    First you find me one person who isn't influenced by PR.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      This is a total, BS-grade shade throw. If I answer "Me", what is going to change for you?
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        You seem like a cool guy so I'm gonna answer you. If that is true, and if you could figure out how to teach it, you should, because it would literally save the world.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Thanks for the compliment, but I still don't see how this relates to your first point. Do you believe that the same people that are (justly) upset at the Copilot debacle are going to forget the issue because of a PR move? Moreover, why would be so hard for people to separate judgement between specific issues and the company as a whole? As in, Microsoft is still a corporation that is not going to get my sympathy, but we can still acknowledge that giving some money to FOSS developers is better than not giving anything.
        TAForObvReasons 4y ago
        The directly affected people (people who have spent a significant portion of their working lives building open source software) won't forget. The general developer population (people who use but don't necessarily contribute to open source) sees a payment in support of open source and moves on. It's a PR campaign aimed at copilot users who aren't directly affected but found the whole episode discomforting.
- duskwuff 4y ago
  > EEEing vscode, etc VS Code is literally Microsoft's own product, which they wrote in-house and subsequently open-sourced. I'm having a very hard time imagining how "EEE" could apply here.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Well let me help! First you embrace open source with vscode to get mindshare, then you extend with closed source plugins, and finally extinguish competition who can't use those plugins! Ta da
    - 411111111111111 4y ago
      To contextualize this: the language server plugins are now closed source I believe. I don't think that vscode could exists without them, theyre responsible for almost all smart features.
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        Microsoft has also sent C&D notices to open source projects that use the VSCode plugin repositories, as well.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fartcannon 4y ago
Github is Microsoft. Microsoft has called your work cancer and spent several decades trying to undermine and destroy it. Doesn't it bother you that days after they start directly profiting off your work through copilot that they attempt to buy some positive PR? If Microsoft didn't fight FOSS so aggressively, perhaps the world would support it more. Instead, Microsoft alone will profit, and they tossed a couple people a one time tiny sum. So yes, well done Github, you've further divided a community.
- intern4tional 4y ago
  This wasn't done to divide the community. This was done as a simple thank you and as Microsoft treats GitHub as a separate business entity, Microsoft almost certainly wasn't involved in this decision. 500k is small enough that this may not have even risen to a VP level for approval. Change happens slowly. This is a small step in the right direction.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Gimmie a break.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      You're both right.
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        Doubtful! Truly doubtful.

fartcannon 4y ago

nicce 4y ago
This is quite problematic area indeed. If developers are happy for receiving 500$ for decades of their work, what justifies paying more in the future? I guess everything is good and there is no need to change anything. I get it, that it is the idea of open source, but the demands are increasing towards authors while they just use their spare time in most of the cases. More of their work is used to generate money, but authors are receiving barely anything.
CharlesW 4y ago
> There's a Radiohead lab episode about money the gov gives the families of the people it kills. Hey fartcannon, I think you're saying that GitHub surprising open source developers with cash gifts is analogous to governments compensating families for killing relatives. My only thought on this is: I hope that you're okay, and if you need help I hope you'll seek it. It's been a tough few years.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fartcannon 4y ago
- account42 4y ago
  > I hope that you're okay, and if you need help I hope you'll seek it. This is really a disgusting way to try to demean the person you are talking to that is all too common. Instead of making thinly veiled attacks on the integrity of other commenters try responding to their arguments.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    My comment was sincere, but if you haven't read the parent's other comments in the thread I can understand how it might seem callous. FWIW, I appreciate you calling me out just as I called the parent out — I can always do better. I have great empathy for the parent because I've also ascribed disproportionate malice to benign corporate behavior, and at that time it was helpful for me to be asked, "Hey, do you have other stuff going on that you might need to deal with?". I've also been on the other side of it, receiving death threats on behalf of a multinational corporation because of meaningless marketing or technical decisions. Both are shitty places to be. Take care.
rglullis 4y ago
> Microsoft thinks 550 will stop you from caring about copilot, EEEing vscode, etc. Could you find one developer that stopped caring about license violations just because of the money they received?
- fartcannon 4y ago
  First you find me one person who isn't influenced by PR.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    This is a total, BS-grade shade throw. If I answer "Me", what is going to change for you?
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      You seem like a cool guy so I'm gonna answer you. If that is true, and if you could figure out how to teach it, you should, because it would literally save the world.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        Thanks for the compliment, but I still don't see how this relates to your first point. Do you believe that the same people that are (justly) upset at the Copilot debacle are going to forget the issue because of a PR move? Moreover, why would be so hard for people to separate judgement between specific issues and the company as a whole? As in, Microsoft is still a corporation that is not going to get my sympathy, but we can still acknowledge that giving some money to FOSS developers is better than not giving anything.
        TAForObvReasons 4y ago
        The directly affected people (people who have spent a significant portion of their working lives building open source software) won't forget. The general developer population (people who use but don't necessarily contribute to open source) sees a payment in support of open source and moves on. It's a PR campaign aimed at copilot users who aren't directly affected but found the whole episode discomforting.
duskwuff 4y ago
> EEEing vscode, etc VS Code is literally Microsoft's own product, which they wrote in-house and subsequently open-sourced. I'm having a very hard time imagining how "EEE" could apply here.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Well let me help! First you embrace open source with vscode to get mindshare, then you extend with closed source plugins, and finally extinguish competition who can't use those plugins! Ta da
  - 411111111111111 4y ago
    To contextualize this: the language server plugins are now closed source I believe. I don't think that vscode could exists without them, theyre responsible for almost all smart features.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      Microsoft has also sent C&D notices to open source projects that use the VSCode plugin repositories, as well.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

fartcannon 4y ago

Github is Microsoft. Microsoft has called your work cancer and spent several decades trying to undermine and destroy it. Doesn't it bother you that days after they start directly profiting off your work through copilot that they attempt to buy some positive PR? If Microsoft didn't fight FOSS so aggressively, perhaps the world would support it more. Instead, Microsoft alone will profit, and they tossed a couple people a one time tiny sum. So yes, well done Github, you've further divided a community.

intern4tional 4y ago
This wasn't done to divide the community. This was done as a simple thank you and as Microsoft treats GitHub as a separate business entity, Microsoft almost certainly wasn't involved in this decision. 500k is small enough that this may not have even risen to a VP level for approval. Change happens slowly. This is a small step in the right direction.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Gimmie a break.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    You're both right.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      Doubtful! Truly doubtful.