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That makes more sense: billboard advertisement would go too far as it would encourage otherwise unwarranted behavior (similar to smoking : if you see someone co

by singularity2001 4y ago

That makes more sense: billboard advertisement would go too far as it would encourage otherwise unwarranted behavior (similar to smoking : if you see someone cool doing it you might consider it, without any prior motivation)

Kaze404 4y ago
If you see someone cool having an abortion you'd intentionally get pregnant to also get one? I don't get it.
- viraptor 4y ago
  You'd show it as an easily accessible alternative, potentially reducing the strict use of contraceptives. And overall that would have worse consequences than preventing pregnancy in the first place.
  - solar-ice 4y ago
    Can you show any evidence that people knowing they can get an abortion and where, leads to reduced contraception usage? Actually… next time you’re close to sleeping with someone, say “hey, you can just get an abortion, we don’t need to use a condom”. Tell me what she says.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      Evidence, no, that's why I wrote "potentially". This idea is extrapolated from something that already happens though - if people know plan B is easily accessible, they're not as regular with taking a daily pill as they'd be otherwise. Even though in practice that means higher risks. This I heard directly - don't know if there's any study. The whole idea is not about making a conscious, calculated choice. It's about how comfortable you become with certain risk. It's on the same level as: if we start advertising how safe airbags are, would we see the average speed get a tiny increase nationally.
      - solar-ice 4y ago
        > if people know plan B is easily accessible, they're not as regular with taking a daily pill as they'd be otherwise I would like to know where this belief comes from. Discussing this change of law like this, with vague anecdotes and fears, is outright dangerous, since the argument is essentially against giving people appropriate medical information.
        viraptor 4y ago
        > I would like to know where this belief comes from. In this case, from personally having conversations with two women who essentially said "I forgot the pill that day, but had sex anyway and got plan B in the morning". Also the context in this subthread is about commercial advertising and the impression of "cool", not about medical information. Completely separate ideas.
        solar-ice 4y ago
        Abortion has never been advertised as “cool”, anywhere in the world, so I don’t know why that’s where your head goes. Women aren’t idiots - they are, usually, informed about their options, a heck of a lot more than the men fucking them are. People have always forgotten to take any pill they have to take regularly. Plan B gives people an option they didn’t have before when that happens. There’s no evidence there that Plan B causes people to take the pill less regularly. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/miss-combined-pill/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/miss-combined-pi... - “ If you have missed 1 pill anywhere in the pack or started a new pack 1 day late, you're still protected against pregnancy.”
        viraptor 4y ago
        > I don’t know why that’s where your head goes This is literally the context of the speculation in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31883497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31883497 I'm done with this thread. Too many people jump to conclusions and don't understand threads of conversation.
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  - Kaze404 4y ago
    Nobody thinks abortions are contraception. Women and other people who can get pregnant are smarter than that.
    - dymk 4y ago
      Imagine getting downvoted for the radical opinion that females aren’t complete idiots when it comes to what an abortion involves
      - trasz 4y ago
        Millions of people are being conditioned by their religion to believe exactly this.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        The German constitution still views abortion as unjust towards the aborted child in any case. That doesn't mean it is an illegal practice. While the conservative party indeed has the name christian in their name, abortion never was a religious debate in Germany. Hell, I don't think neither is it in the US really. Sure, fundamentalists will reject it, but this isn't too relevant to overall opposition. Maybe I am wrong here, but it doesn't look like it at all.
        trasz 4y ago
        German court declared so half a century ago, but a quick look at the source ("(2) Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity") shows that this is not true - the only way one can conflict with the other is under assumption of catholic shibboleth of "life from conception", ie the theory that zygote is a person.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        Germany may be a bit behind here but the point at which a fetus transforms into a human isn't too relevant at first. Formally all abortions are unjust towards the (potential) person, no matter how early or late the abortion happens. The question of when human lives begins can be a religious argument but it may as well be not. In the same vein the valuation of human life to be precious is either religious or ideological as well.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    Except that abortion is not easy on the woman body and often neither easy on the psych. Which is as far as I know generally know by woman. (EDIT: At lest in Germany) So no, this will not reduce the amount of contraceptives people use.

Kaze404 4y ago

If you see someone cool having an abortion you'd intentionally get pregnant to also get one? I don't get it.

viraptor 4y ago
You'd show it as an easily accessible alternative, potentially reducing the strict use of contraceptives. And overall that would have worse consequences than preventing pregnancy in the first place.
- solar-ice 4y ago
  Can you show any evidence that people knowing they can get an abortion and where, leads to reduced contraception usage? Actually… next time you’re close to sleeping with someone, say “hey, you can just get an abortion, we don’t need to use a condom”. Tell me what she says.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Evidence, no, that's why I wrote "potentially". This idea is extrapolated from something that already happens though - if people know plan B is easily accessible, they're not as regular with taking a daily pill as they'd be otherwise. Even though in practice that means higher risks. This I heard directly - don't know if there's any study. The whole idea is not about making a conscious, calculated choice. It's about how comfortable you become with certain risk. It's on the same level as: if we start advertising how safe airbags are, would we see the average speed get a tiny increase nationally.
    - solar-ice 4y ago
      > if people know plan B is easily accessible, they're not as regular with taking a daily pill as they'd be otherwise I would like to know where this belief comes from. Discussing this change of law like this, with vague anecdotes and fears, is outright dangerous, since the argument is essentially against giving people appropriate medical information.
      - viraptor 4y ago
        > I would like to know where this belief comes from. In this case, from personally having conversations with two women who essentially said "I forgot the pill that day, but had sex anyway and got plan B in the morning". Also the context in this subthread is about commercial advertising and the impression of "cool", not about medical information. Completely separate ideas.
        solar-ice 4y ago
        Abortion has never been advertised as “cool”, anywhere in the world, so I don’t know why that’s where your head goes. Women aren’t idiots - they are, usually, informed about their options, a heck of a lot more than the men fucking them are. People have always forgotten to take any pill they have to take regularly. Plan B gives people an option they didn’t have before when that happens. There’s no evidence there that Plan B causes people to take the pill less regularly. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/miss-combined-pill/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/miss-combined-pi... - “ If you have missed 1 pill anywhere in the pack or started a new pack 1 day late, you're still protected against pregnancy.”
        viraptor 4y ago
        > I don’t know why that’s where your head goes This is literally the context of the speculation in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31883497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31883497 I'm done with this thread. Too many people jump to conclusions and don't understand threads of conversation.
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- Kaze404 4y ago
  Nobody thinks abortions are contraception. Women and other people who can get pregnant are smarter than that.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Imagine getting downvoted for the radical opinion that females aren’t complete idiots when it comes to what an abortion involves
    - trasz 4y ago
      Millions of people are being conditioned by their religion to believe exactly this.
      - raxxorraxor 4y ago
        The German constitution still views abortion as unjust towards the aborted child in any case. That doesn't mean it is an illegal practice. While the conservative party indeed has the name christian in their name, abortion never was a religious debate in Germany. Hell, I don't think neither is it in the US really. Sure, fundamentalists will reject it, but this isn't too relevant to overall opposition. Maybe I am wrong here, but it doesn't look like it at all.
        trasz 4y ago
        German court declared so half a century ago, but a quick look at the source ("(2) Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity") shows that this is not true - the only way one can conflict with the other is under assumption of catholic shibboleth of "life from conception", ie the theory that zygote is a person.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        Germany may be a bit behind here but the point at which a fetus transforms into a human isn't too relevant at first. Formally all abortions are unjust towards the (potential) person, no matter how early or late the abortion happens. The question of when human lives begins can be a religious argument but it may as well be not. In the same vein the valuation of human life to be precious is either religious or ideological as well.
- dathinab 4y ago
  Except that abortion is not easy on the woman body and often neither easy on the psych. Which is as far as I know generally know by woman. (EDIT: At lest in Germany) So no, this will not reduce the amount of contraceptives people use.