5 ms·

Just look at platforms like Patreon, Subscribestar, Twitch, Onlyfans etc. (these days also Youtube with members and superchats). Hell, ironically enough (given

by uwuemu 4y ago

Just look at platforms like Patreon, Subscribestar, Twitch, Onlyfans etc. (these days also Youtube with members and superchats). Hell, ironically enough (given the OP), even substack. These are the places where having just 500-1000 supporters can set you up for a VERY comfortable living, and mostly with no need for advertisement driven business (if you don't want to). That's where the long tail is and it's healthier than ever before.

rob74 4y ago
Also, niche acts on Spotify, Bandcamp etc. - they can now theoretically reach much larger audiences. Of course, the downside is that there are also a lot of other acts to compete with, so the odds of "breaking out" of the long tail are not really good. And I'm not sure how much artists with 10 to 30 000 "monthly listeners" earn on Spotify. Probably not enough to make a living...
- ghaff 4y ago
  So, if every 30,000 monthly listener on Spotify listens to 10 songs on average they'll earn about $1300 per month by my calculation. Of course, playing weekend gigs at your local bar or college party didn't earn you a living either.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    In NYC a typical bar-band gets one free bear per player, sometimes not even that.
    - achenet 4y ago
      What type of bear? Polar bear? Grizzly bear? just kidding, I'm almost sure you meant beer ;)
      - galaxyLogic 4y ago
        Thanks I'll edit it
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Breaking out of the long tail never had good odds. I suspect the investment though for indie bands now is a lot cheaper (cheaper than say filling up the van at every college-town stop).
  - chiefalchemist 4y ago
    Yes. But that model applies to every one. That is, the lower bar leads to more noise (read: crap bands) and morw competition). Easy means, less effort. Less effort means less creativity. It's a race to the bottom.
    - JKCalhoun 4y ago
      There's still a hurdle — artists still have to be prolific and have the drive/energy to record/edit/upload. That alone filters out most of the noise. Lacking a long tail, culture becomes a race to the banal.
      - chiefalchemist 4y ago
        Prolific has nothing to do with quality. I sold music (i.e. dance / electronic music) from 1990 (pre-internet) and into the mid+ 00s. I saw what easier production and easier distribution did for quality. Ask any DJ who has lived long enough, and no one will tell you there's less noise.
        JKCalhoun 4y ago
        I don't doubt there's more noise (I wasn't arguing there wasn't — rather that there is still a hurdle). The alternative is worse though.
        chiefalchemist 4y ago
        If there's an excess of noise, then there is no effective hurdle. A bit of natural unavoidable friction (e.g., uploading song) is not a hurdle. We do have more choice. Unfortunately, there's been a disproportunate increase in friction / noise. A net loss, which supports the article's theory.
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
Long tails have been around for a long time. If you worked out how to crack the distributor game, you could make a VERY comfortable living back in the 90s producing mediocre dance music under many different names. You could make a VERY comfortable living as a writer in 80s and 90s writing for niche literary or special interest magazines. Or producing mid-market fiction. Especially romantic novels. Until around 2000, you could make a VERY comfortable living as a competent but not outstanding orchestral sessions musician, as long as you lived in one of the bigger music cities (London, LA, NY, Tokyo, Berlin.) Until around 2010, likewise for pop session musicians (add Nashville and a few others.) Most of those opportunities have disappeared. The Long Tail hasn't added anything. It has shuffled around the opportunities. So now you can make a VERY comfortable living as a niche YouTube star, as long as you're the right kind of extrovert and - ideally - at least a little good looking. And so on for all the other current market slots. They're not really new at all - just updated variations on the old "self-employed creative" roles which happen to favour a different set of skills.
- mypalmike 4y ago
  Thank you. This validates my decision not to become a competent violist. When I see orchestras play, I sometimes wonder if I could have made a career of it.
- abetusk 4y ago
  The point isn't that the long tail hadn't existed before, it's that more people have access to it through new technology. In other words, it's the difference of approximating a probability distribution with 1 billion points instead of 1 million. Before the internet, long tail effects were present with the 1M that could get past the gauntlet of labels and distribution conglomerates. After the internet, musicians had better avenues to get money more directly from fans and fans had better tools for discovery. You characterize it as being a zero-sum game but I don't believe this is right. I think it's easier now than ever to generate a (small, potentially liveable) income stream from 'mediocre dance music', niche writer, etc. There are more full-time musicians and musicians earning a living than there were 20 years ago [0] [1]. This is directly due to the internet being the distribution channel. I would imagine other fields have been effected similarly though I haven't seen a broad study. [0] https://www.techdirt.com/2013/05/30/massive-growth-independent-musicians-singers-over-past-decade/ https://www.techdirt.com/2013/05/30/massive-growth-independe... [1] https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/raine-group-independent-artists-2-billion-in-2020-967138/ https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/raine-group-indepe...

by uwuemu 4y ago

rob74 4y ago

Also, niche acts on Spotify, Bandcamp etc. - they can now theoretically reach much larger audiences. Of course, the downside is that there are also a lot of other acts to compete with, so the odds of "breaking out" of the long tail are not really good. And I'm not sure how much artists with 10 to 30 000 "monthly listeners" earn on Spotify. Probably not enough to make a living...

ghaff 4y ago
So, if every 30,000 monthly listener on Spotify listens to 10 songs on average they'll earn about $1300 per month by my calculation. Of course, playing weekend gigs at your local bar or college party didn't earn you a living either.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago
  In NYC a typical bar-band gets one free bear per player, sometimes not even that.
  - achenet 4y ago
    What type of bear? Polar bear? Grizzly bear? just kidding, I'm almost sure you meant beer ;)
    - galaxyLogic 4y ago
      Thanks I'll edit it
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Breaking out of the long tail never had good odds. I suspect the investment though for indie bands now is a lot cheaper (cheaper than say filling up the van at every college-town stop).
- chiefalchemist 4y ago
  Yes. But that model applies to every one. That is, the lower bar leads to more noise (read: crap bands) and morw competition). Easy means, less effort. Less effort means less creativity. It's a race to the bottom.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    There's still a hurdle — artists still have to be prolific and have the drive/energy to record/edit/upload. That alone filters out most of the noise. Lacking a long tail, culture becomes a race to the banal.
    - chiefalchemist 4y ago
      Prolific has nothing to do with quality. I sold music (i.e. dance / electronic music) from 1990 (pre-internet) and into the mid+ 00s. I saw what easier production and easier distribution did for quality. Ask any DJ who has lived long enough, and no one will tell you there's less noise.
      - JKCalhoun 4y ago
        I don't doubt there's more noise (I wasn't arguing there wasn't — rather that there is still a hurdle). The alternative is worse though.
        chiefalchemist 4y ago
        If there's an excess of noise, then there is no effective hurdle. A bit of natural unavoidable friction (e.g., uploading song) is not a hurdle. We do have more choice. Unfortunately, there's been a disproportunate increase in friction / noise. A net loss, which supports the article's theory.

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago

Long tails have been around for a long time. If you worked out how to crack the distributor game, you could make a VERY comfortable living back in the 90s producing mediocre dance music under many different names. You could make a VERY comfortable living as a writer in 80s and 90s writing for niche literary or special interest magazines. Or producing mid-market fiction. Especially romantic novels. Until around 2000, you could make a VERY comfortable living as a competent but not outstanding orchestral sessions musician, as long as you lived in one of the bigger music cities (London, LA, NY, Tokyo, Berlin.) Until around 2010, likewise for pop session musicians (add Nashville and a few others.) Most of those opportunities have disappeared. The Long Tail hasn't added anything. It has shuffled around the opportunities. So now you can make a VERY comfortable living as a niche YouTube star, as long as you're the right kind of extrovert and - ideally - at least a little good looking. And so on for all the other current market slots. They're not really new at all - just updated variations on the old "self-employed creative" roles which happen to favour a different set of skills.

mypalmike 4y ago
Thank you. This validates my decision not to become a competent violist. When I see orchestras play, I sometimes wonder if I could have made a career of it.
abetusk 4y ago
The point isn't that the long tail hadn't existed before, it's that more people have access to it through new technology. In other words, it's the difference of approximating a probability distribution with 1 billion points instead of 1 million. Before the internet, long tail effects were present with the 1M that could get past the gauntlet of labels and distribution conglomerates. After the internet, musicians had better avenues to get money more directly from fans and fans had better tools for discovery. You characterize it as being a zero-sum game but I don't believe this is right. I think it's easier now than ever to generate a (small, potentially liveable) income stream from 'mediocre dance music', niche writer, etc. There are more full-time musicians and musicians earning a living than there were 20 years ago [0] [1]. This is directly due to the internet being the distribution channel. I would imagine other fields have been effected similarly though I haven't seen a broad study. [0] https://www.techdirt.com/2013/05/30/massive-growth-independent-musicians-singers-over-past-decade/ https://www.techdirt.com/2013/05/30/massive-growth-independe... [1] https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/raine-group-independent-artists-2-billion-in-2020-967138/ https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/raine-group-indepe...