3 ms·

Abortion is legal in Germany the same way weed is legal in the Netherlands: it‘s not. The law is just not enforced. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__2

by brodo 4y ago

Abortion is legal in Germany the same way weed is legal in the Netherlands: it‘s not. The law is just not enforced. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218.html

morelisp 4y ago
It's a little more precise than that. It's illegal but also formally has no penalty for a variety of cases. Ending the "advertising" ban is a great step forward in letting people actually access doctors' services. Legalization seems unlikely, unfortunately, though the news around Dobbs has at least opened up the discussion again.
fabian2k 4y ago
The important part is §218a which declares the situations in which abortion is legal. This is not something like prosecutorial discretion, it's still a matter of law.
- fosefx 4y ago
  English translation: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p1964 https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_st... Most notable: "The pregnant woman does not incur the penalty specified in section 218 if the termination was performed by a physician after counselling (section 219) and no more than 22 weeks have elapsed since conception"
  - sReinwald 4y ago
    > [...] and no more than 22 weeks have elapsed since conception You seem to have made a quite unlucky typo there. It's 12 weeks since conception, not 22. We are not that progressive.
    - piceas 4y ago
      No typo according to the link. The 22 weeks with conditions is correct.
    - morelisp 4y ago
      Eliding a full matrix of possible outcomes, the effect is 12 weeks ensures no punishment for the doctor, 22 for the pregnant person.
amai 4y ago
You should also mention paragraph 218a: An illegal abortion in Germany is not realized, if it happens until week 12 of pregnancy: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218a.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218a.html https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fristenregelung https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fristenregelung
rdsubhas 4y ago
As a person living in Berlin and helping someone through it recently here. This is plain armchair analysis. Have you ever actually gone through this in Germany??? It's COVERED in public health insurance. Get the letter (from public health insurance), get the family counseling (which is provided by the senate, and unlike what people think, is informative and gives surgical and grief counseling with info sheets), let it sink in for 3 days, then go through it with a gynecologist. It should be completed before 12 weeks. These are services offered, paid and staffed by the government (even the public health insurers). To compare it to private "smart shops" in Netherlands is stupid.

by brodo 4y ago

morelisp 4y ago

It's a little more precise than that. It's illegal but also formally has no penalty for a variety of cases. Ending the "advertising" ban is a great step forward in letting people actually access doctors' services. Legalization seems unlikely, unfortunately, though the news around Dobbs has at least opened up the discussion again.

fabian2k 4y ago

The important part is §218a which declares the situations in which abortion is legal. This is not something like prosecutorial discretion, it's still a matter of law.

fosefx 4y ago
English translation: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p1964 https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_st... Most notable: "The pregnant woman does not incur the penalty specified in section 218 if the termination was performed by a physician after counselling (section 219) and no more than 22 weeks have elapsed since conception"
- sReinwald 4y ago
  > [...] and no more than 22 weeks have elapsed since conception You seem to have made a quite unlucky typo there. It's 12 weeks since conception, not 22. We are not that progressive.
  - piceas 4y ago
    No typo according to the link. The 22 weeks with conditions is correct.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    Eliding a full matrix of possible outcomes, the effect is 12 weeks ensures no punishment for the doctor, 22 for the pregnant person.

amai 4y ago

You should also mention paragraph 218a: An illegal abortion in Germany is not realized, if it happens until week 12 of pregnancy: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218a.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__218a.html https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fristenregelung https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fristenregelung

rdsubhas 4y ago

As a person living in Berlin and helping someone through it recently here. This is plain armchair analysis. Have you ever actually gone through this in Germany??? It's COVERED in public health insurance. Get the letter (from public health insurance), get the family counseling (which is provided by the senate, and unlike what people think, is informative and gives surgical and grief counseling with info sheets), let it sink in for 3 days, then go through it with a gynecologist. It should be completed before 12 weeks. These are services offered, paid and staffed by the government (even the public health insurers). To compare it to private "smart shops" in Netherlands is stupid.