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Have people forgotten 2016 so quickly? The left had a nationwide movement named "Occupy" and the Democrats and most media approved. The right did it once and

Have people forgotten 2016 so quickly? The left had a nationwide movement named "Occupy" and the Democrats and most media approved. The right did it once and the same people all lost their minds.

krapp 4y ago
Occupy was a series of legal protests, as opposed to a violent insurrectionist plot to subvert the legal transfer of power with sympathizers within the government. These are not the same.
- leereeves 4y ago
  Legal? Most occupy occupations were dismantled by the police, even in progressive cities like Oakland and Portland. Perhaps the police were wrong and the protestors had a right to occupy, but if so, why didn't the protestors on Jan 6 also have a right to occupy the Capitol? Violent? The only violence on January 6th was between police and protestors. There was plenty of similar violence at Occupy protests, but the Occupy protests also had other kinds of violence, like Sexual Assaults Reported in 'Occupy' Camps[1] Insurrectionist? "The FBI at this point believes the violence [on January 6th] was not centrally coordinated...there was no grand scheme...to storm the Capitol and take hostages."[2] Sympathizers within the government? Like Obama?[3] An attempt to disrupt the normal functioning of government? Yes, both were. That's actually a common protest tactic - protesters generally argue that a protest has to be disruptive to be effective. 1: https://abcnews.go.com/us/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014 https://abcnews.go.com/us/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street... 2: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-e... 3: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-risky-embrace-of-occupy-wall-street/2011/10/19/gIQA2pQf1L_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-risky-embrace...
SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
The media undermined the Occupy protests, portraying them as a rudderless, rag-tag bunch of unemployed no-hopers seeking government handouts. The establishment media (millionaire mouthpieces for billionaires) is not going to assist any movement that actually threatens the establishment.
lapcat 4y ago
> Have people forgotten 2016 so quickly? Occupy Wall Street was 2011. The crucial difference between January 6 and Occupy Wall Street is that the members of Congress and the Vice President were inside the Capitol Building on January 6, whereas no elected officials were in Zuccotti Park during Occupy Wall Street. If the break-in of the Capitol had occurred while it was empty, that would have been a different matter, still serious, but not giving the appearance of a coup attempt.
- leereeves 4y ago
  Fair point. I shouldn't have made a silly joke about the name of that group when my real point was about the much bigger left-wing protest movement that peaked in 2016. The best example is perhaps the occupation of the Wisconsin state capital: > Thousands of protesters rushed to the … Capitol Wednesday night, forcing their way through doors, crawling through windows and jamming corridors...thousands of pro-union activists — many bused in from out of state — rampaged through the historic building in an effort to stop a vote on collective bargaining reform legislation. ... > during the course of the occupation, Walker received a steady stream of death threats against him and his wife, including one that promised to “gut her like a deer” and one threatening to kill his sons. Police found dozens of .22-caliber bullets scattered across the Capitol grounds. The occupiers drew chalk outlines of fake dead bodies etched with Walker’s name on the floor, and carried signs that read “Death to tyrants,” “The only good Republican is a dead Republican” and one with picture of him in crosshairs with the words, “Don’t retreat, Reload.” ... > House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) praised the occupiers for an “impressive show of democracy in action” and tweeted as they assaulted the Capitol that she continued “to stand in solidarity” with the union activists. In other words, Democrats were for occupying capitols before they were against it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/14/democrats-were-occupying-capitols-before-they-were-against-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/14/democrats...
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > my real point was about the much bigger left-wing protest movement that peaked in 2016. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning 2016? The Wisconsin protests were also in 2011. Anyway, in Wisconsin they were protesting a proposed bill. It wasn't a coup attempt. I'm actually a Wisconsinite, so I'm very familiar with this. If you read the linked Wisconsin State Journal article, you'll see that the protests were peaceful. "Police and protesters continued to get along, with no incidents reported and no arrests." It wasn't actually a "break-in". What happened was that there were already some protesters who had been inside the Capitol for some time, and then a much larger crowd showed up that night and wanted to get in, because there was a vote on the bill scheduled soon. The police were initially reluctant to allow the larger crowd to enter but decided to allow them. There was no violence. https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_260247e0-4ac4-11e0-bfa9-001cc4c03286.html https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article... Again, the issue isn't really protesting legislation in Capitol buildings. In general, that's a legitimate democratic activity. The issue is the safety of the members of Congress and the VP from a crowd on January 6 who wanted to overturn the results of the election that was about to be legally certified.

Have people forgotten 2016 so quickly? The left had a nationwide movement named "Occupy" and the Democrats and most media approved. The right did it once and the same people all lost their minds.

krapp 4y ago

Occupy was a series of legal protests, as opposed to a violent insurrectionist plot to subvert the legal transfer of power with sympathizers within the government. These are not the same.

leereeves 4y ago
Legal? Most occupy occupations were dismantled by the police, even in progressive cities like Oakland and Portland. Perhaps the police were wrong and the protestors had a right to occupy, but if so, why didn't the protestors on Jan 6 also have a right to occupy the Capitol? Violent? The only violence on January 6th was between police and protestors. There was plenty of similar violence at Occupy protests, but the Occupy protests also had other kinds of violence, like Sexual Assaults Reported in 'Occupy' Camps[1] Insurrectionist? "The FBI at this point believes the violence [on January 6th] was not centrally coordinated...there was no grand scheme...to storm the Capitol and take hostages."[2] Sympathizers within the government? Like Obama?[3] An attempt to disrupt the normal functioning of government? Yes, both were. That's actually a common protest tactic - protesters generally argue that a protest has to be disruptive to be effective. 1: https://abcnews.go.com/us/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014 https://abcnews.go.com/us/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street... 2: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-e... 3: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-risky-embrace-of-occupy-wall-street/2011/10/19/gIQA2pQf1L_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-risky-embrace...

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago

The media undermined the Occupy protests, portraying them as a rudderless, rag-tag bunch of unemployed no-hopers seeking government handouts. The establishment media (millionaire mouthpieces for billionaires) is not going to assist any movement that actually threatens the establishment.

lapcat 4y ago

> Have people forgotten 2016 so quickly? Occupy Wall Street was 2011. The crucial difference between January 6 and Occupy Wall Street is that the members of Congress and the Vice President were inside the Capitol Building on January 6, whereas no elected officials were in Zuccotti Park during Occupy Wall Street. If the break-in of the Capitol had occurred while it was empty, that would have been a different matter, still serious, but not giving the appearance of a coup attempt.

leereeves 4y ago
Fair point. I shouldn't have made a silly joke about the name of that group when my real point was about the much bigger left-wing protest movement that peaked in 2016. The best example is perhaps the occupation of the Wisconsin state capital: > Thousands of protesters rushed to the … Capitol Wednesday night, forcing their way through doors, crawling through windows and jamming corridors...thousands of pro-union activists — many bused in from out of state — rampaged through the historic building in an effort to stop a vote on collective bargaining reform legislation. ... > during the course of the occupation, Walker received a steady stream of death threats against him and his wife, including one that promised to “gut her like a deer” and one threatening to kill his sons. Police found dozens of .22-caliber bullets scattered across the Capitol grounds. The occupiers drew chalk outlines of fake dead bodies etched with Walker’s name on the floor, and carried signs that read “Death to tyrants,” “The only good Republican is a dead Republican” and one with picture of him in crosshairs with the words, “Don’t retreat, Reload.” ... > House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) praised the occupiers for an “impressive show of democracy in action” and tweeted as they assaulted the Capitol that she continued “to stand in solidarity” with the union activists. In other words, Democrats were for occupying capitols before they were against it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/14/democrats-were-occupying-capitols-before-they-were-against-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/14/democrats...
- lapcat 4y ago
  > my real point was about the much bigger left-wing protest movement that peaked in 2016. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning 2016? The Wisconsin protests were also in 2011. Anyway, in Wisconsin they were protesting a proposed bill. It wasn't a coup attempt. I'm actually a Wisconsinite, so I'm very familiar with this. If you read the linked Wisconsin State Journal article, you'll see that the protests were peaceful. "Police and protesters continued to get along, with no incidents reported and no arrests." It wasn't actually a "break-in". What happened was that there were already some protesters who had been inside the Capitol for some time, and then a much larger crowd showed up that night and wanted to get in, because there was a vote on the bill scheduled soon. The police were initially reluctant to allow the larger crowd to enter but decided to allow them. There was no violence. https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_260247e0-4ac4-11e0-bfa9-001cc4c03286.html https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article... Again, the issue isn't really protesting legislation in Capitol buildings. In general, that's a legitimate democratic activity. The issue is the safety of the members of Congress and the VP from a crowd on January 6 who wanted to overturn the results of the election that was about to be legally certified.