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Abortion should be a human right. All countries that don’t respect that should pay huge fines. Thanks for giving that example.

h2odragon 4y ago
Until when? I advocate parental "take backs" up til the kid's 18, but some think I'm a bit extreme. I don't think forcing my opinion on anyone who disagrees is correct, but then neither do I want others' opinions forced on me.
sparkie 4y ago
Pay fines to who? What about the human rights of the unborn babies?
- sofixa 4y ago
  Legally they aren't humans, and hence have no rights, until birth.
  - sparkie 4y ago
    "Human" isn't a legal term, and it pre-dates modern laws entirely. It simply refers to a member of the homo species. And who determines whether or not the unborn have rights? Rights are given by god, not some legislature.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      > Rights are given by god Whose god? Allah? Buddha? No, rights are natural, books with legends and stories have nothing to do with it, but their legal framework is provided by legislatures.
pfortuny 4y ago
You are entitled to that opinion as others are to the very huge gray intermediates AND the total opposite. Why not?
zthrowaway 4y ago
Many don’t believe this is a human right, and you enforcing this on them is going against their will. This is authoritarian.
- lifeformed 4y ago
  Against their will to do what? Legalizing abortion doesn't mean forced abortions.
  - throw0101a 4y ago
    > Legalizing abortion doesn't mean forced abortions. Legalizing slavery doesn't mean you're forced to own slaves. Some folks believe certain actions are intrinsically immoral and no one should be allowed to do them.
- freedom2099 4y ago
  Authoritarian is forcing a mother to have a child she doesn’t want! It’s her body! If you force your opinion on something that should be exclusively her concern then you are the “authoritarian”
  - mpfundstein 4y ago
    what about the childs body?
    - freedom2099 4y ago
      An embryo is not a human
      - throw0101a 4y ago
        > An embryo is not a human So a human female and a human male copulate and they conceive something not-human? What species is it if it is not Homo sapiens? If it is not Homo sapiens, why does it apparently have human DNA (distinct from either the female and male that were involved)? Why is it that when two humans copulate, they produce something not-human, but when every other mammal pairs copulate they produce something of the same species? In your opinion when does it go from being not-human to being human? Is is gradual, on a spectrum? Or is it binary: at a certain point in development there is some characteristic that becomes present
barry-cotter 4y ago
This is why one world government will happen at the barrel of a gun, if ever.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  It will happen through a global catastrophe where the emerging authority plays the savior of the human race.
  - timbit42 4y ago
    What causes you to think that is how it will happen?
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      Based on my limited knowledge of the history of societies, an external threat, perceived by ordinary people to acutely and in actuality threaten their livelihoods, is historically a common driver of major change in societal power dynamics. The rise (those damn Christians!) and fall (those damn Goths and Huns!) of Rome, the fall of Napoleon’s rule (those damn Russians!), the rise of Hitler (those damn Jews!), USA after Pearl Harbor (those damn Japanese!), downfall of Germany in 1945 (this damn war!), end of the Japanese imperial era (those damn bombs!) and the subsequent Americanization of Japan, fall of Great Britain’s monarchy after the war (those damn royalty!), the late 60’s major loss of civil liberties in the US (those damn blacks!), the entire Gaddafi affair (those damn clan monarchs / those damn Yankees!), USA becoming a surveillance state after 9/11 (those damn terrorists!), rise of the Taliban (those damn Yankees again!) …
thecolorblew 4y ago
Counterpoint: Abortion is murder. All countries that don’t respect that should pay huge fines. See how silly you’re being? The parent comment already shared that large parts of the world have different values. I’d be curious of your take when your proposed value isn’t chosen and there is no recourse.
- danaris 4y ago
  In no other case is a human being, living or dead, legally required to give up their organs, bodily fluids, or other part of themselves, nor to literally risk their lives, for another human being. Corpses have more bodily autonomy than women after Dobbs.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    I do not understand your comment. > In no other case is a human being, living or dead, legally required to give up their organs, bodily fluids, or other part of themselves, nor to literally risk their lives, for another human being. In many other cases are humans legally required to literally risk their lives for another human being. Would you like me to give you examples? > Corpses have more bodily autonomy than women after Dobbs. I guess this is something US specific? You have not addressed anything in the comment you're replying to. I think the right to abortion is the less bad of the two options, but I can also understand the people who say that abortion is murder. Can't you?
    - danaris 4y ago
      If abortion is murder, then is refusing to donate your kidney when someone else needs it to live also murder? Is refusing to donate blood, bone marrow, etc, murder? Is not mandating the donation of viable organs after death murder? None of these things are required of people, in the name of bodily autonomy. None of these inactions are considered murder. And yet you expect women to donate their bodies for 9 months to something that is not yet a person, and take the very, very real risk of injury, permanent disability, or death, and the near-certainty that their bodies will never be the same again, to support what you call a human life. The logic does not follow. It does not matter whether life begins at conception, at first heartbeat, at differentiated brain development, or at birth: In no case other than pregnancy is a human being societally expected or legally required to give even a part of their body to keep another human being alive, regardless of how safe the procedure may be.

h2odragon 4y ago

Until when? I advocate parental "take backs" up til the kid's 18, but some think I'm a bit extreme. I don't think forcing my opinion on anyone who disagrees is correct, but then neither do I want others' opinions forced on me.

sparkie 4y ago

Pay fines to who? What about the human rights of the unborn babies?

sofixa 4y ago
Legally they aren't humans, and hence have no rights, until birth.
- sparkie 4y ago
  "Human" isn't a legal term, and it pre-dates modern laws entirely. It simply refers to a member of the homo species. And who determines whether or not the unborn have rights? Rights are given by god, not some legislature.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > Rights are given by god Whose god? Allah? Buddha? No, rights are natural, books with legends and stories have nothing to do with it, but their legal framework is provided by legislatures.

pfortuny 4y ago

You are entitled to that opinion as others are to the very huge gray intermediates AND the total opposite. Why not?

zthrowaway 4y ago

Many don’t believe this is a human right, and you enforcing this on them is going against their will. This is authoritarian.

lifeformed 4y ago
Against their will to do what? Legalizing abortion doesn't mean forced abortions.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > Legalizing abortion doesn't mean forced abortions. Legalizing slavery doesn't mean you're forced to own slaves. Some folks believe certain actions are intrinsically immoral and no one should be allowed to do them.
freedom2099 4y ago
Authoritarian is forcing a mother to have a child she doesn’t want! It’s her body! If you force your opinion on something that should be exclusively her concern then you are the “authoritarian”
- mpfundstein 4y ago
  what about the childs body?
  - freedom2099 4y ago
    An embryo is not a human
    - throw0101a 4y ago
      > An embryo is not a human So a human female and a human male copulate and they conceive something not-human? What species is it if it is not Homo sapiens? If it is not Homo sapiens, why does it apparently have human DNA (distinct from either the female and male that were involved)? Why is it that when two humans copulate, they produce something not-human, but when every other mammal pairs copulate they produce something of the same species? In your opinion when does it go from being not-human to being human? Is is gradual, on a spectrum? Or is it binary: at a certain point in development there is some characteristic that becomes present

barry-cotter 4y ago

This is why one world government will happen at the barrel of a gun, if ever.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
It will happen through a global catastrophe where the emerging authority plays the savior of the human race.
- timbit42 4y ago
  What causes you to think that is how it will happen?
  - eurasiantiger 4y ago
    Based on my limited knowledge of the history of societies, an external threat, perceived by ordinary people to acutely and in actuality threaten their livelihoods, is historically a common driver of major change in societal power dynamics. The rise (those damn Christians!) and fall (those damn Goths and Huns!) of Rome, the fall of Napoleon’s rule (those damn Russians!), the rise of Hitler (those damn Jews!), USA after Pearl Harbor (those damn Japanese!), downfall of Germany in 1945 (this damn war!), end of the Japanese imperial era (those damn bombs!) and the subsequent Americanization of Japan, fall of Great Britain’s monarchy after the war (those damn royalty!), the late 60’s major loss of civil liberties in the US (those damn blacks!), the entire Gaddafi affair (those damn clan monarchs / those damn Yankees!), USA becoming a surveillance state after 9/11 (those damn terrorists!), rise of the Taliban (those damn Yankees again!) …

thecolorblew 4y ago

Counterpoint: Abortion is murder. All countries that don’t respect that should pay huge fines. See how silly you’re being? The parent comment already shared that large parts of the world have different values. I’d be curious of your take when your proposed value isn’t chosen and there is no recourse.

danaris 4y ago
In no other case is a human being, living or dead, legally required to give up their organs, bodily fluids, or other part of themselves, nor to literally risk their lives, for another human being. Corpses have more bodily autonomy than women after Dobbs.
- tasuki 4y ago
  I do not understand your comment. > In no other case is a human being, living or dead, legally required to give up their organs, bodily fluids, or other part of themselves, nor to literally risk their lives, for another human being. In many other cases are humans legally required to literally risk their lives for another human being. Would you like me to give you examples? > Corpses have more bodily autonomy than women after Dobbs. I guess this is something US specific? You have not addressed anything in the comment you're replying to. I think the right to abortion is the less bad of the two options, but I can also understand the people who say that abortion is murder. Can't you?
  - danaris 4y ago
    If abortion is murder, then is refusing to donate your kidney when someone else needs it to live also murder? Is refusing to donate blood, bone marrow, etc, murder? Is not mandating the donation of viable organs after death murder? None of these things are required of people, in the name of bodily autonomy. None of these inactions are considered murder. And yet you expect women to donate their bodies for 9 months to something that is not yet a person, and take the very, very real risk of injury, permanent disability, or death, and the near-certainty that their bodies will never be the same again, to support what you call a human life. The logic does not follow. It does not matter whether life begins at conception, at first heartbeat, at differentiated brain development, or at birth: In no case other than pregnancy is a human being societally expected or legally required to give even a part of their body to keep another human being alive, regardless of how safe the procedure may be.