7 ms·

Woke refers to an ideology that, among other things, uses manipulative arguments, framing and emotional appeals to hide the fact that it is intellectual quicksa

Woke refers to an ideology that, among other things, uses manipulative arguments, framing and emotional appeals to hide the fact that it is intellectual quicksand, serving people who want to morally elevate themselves without substance. Exactly like you just did.

Capricorn2481 4y ago
You just described both sides of the political spectrum for the past four decades, but chose to use a word that frames it as a unique phenomenon that is only applicable to a very specific kind of person. The "woke" insult has even less substance than what it's desperately trying to criticize.
- tux2bsd 4y ago
  > The "woke" insult That's one hell of self inflicted insult if that's how you feel. To quote myself: "Woke is used because we know who we're referring to, as do you."
bawolff 4y ago
You're basically just calling people names that have no commonly agreed definition. Something something about glass houses and stones.
- unconed 4y ago
  Why would it not have a definition? Here's one. "Woke": an extreme form of contradictory progressivism popularized in the 2010s, which favors censorship and ostracization over intellectual engagement. The idea that you can't define it is an example of the dynamics at play. The notion that non-woke people know exactly what's going on is unbearable to the woke. It implies that they are not at all "changing the status quo", but that they are the status quo. That their rebellious ideology is in fact the norm in corporate HR departments and colleges everywhere. That their behavior is in no way welcome, or positive, or empathetic, and is really just a LARP of the social causes of the late 20th century, divorced from principle and fact.
  - Capricorn2481 4y ago
    The point being that was a definition pulled out of your ass that not everyone shares, and then you got on a soap box of opinion-based nonsense that you "feel" is right. You are speaking from nowhere but an emotional place and trying to dress it up in pseudo-intellectual analyses of the state of the world, and it shows. For some, the term Woke goes no farther than "they cast a black person in this movie."
    - tux2bsd 4y ago
      unconed is correct.
    - spamuel 4y ago
      His definition reflects very succinctly what I would consider wokeness in action. It's about consolidating power in institutions by ejecting noncompliants. If you embrace the language you will be embraced by the institution. If you reject the language you will be removed. Your actions or nuanced takes are immaterial. Embrace the ideology as prescribed, or suffer.
    - psyc 4y ago
      Arguing by “no agreed upon definition” is a transparent rhetorical bludgeon. Famously used to shut down discussion about hipsters many years ago. I hope most people will see through it.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > “Woke”: an extreme form of contradictory progressivism popularized in the 2010s, which favors censorship and ostracization over intellectual engagement. Yes, its used by the Right interchangeably with “cancel culture” as an abusive epithet with exactly the sense that the same faction used “political correctness” to communicate right up until they swapped in the new terms, except that the idea that the behavior attributed (falsely) as especially prevalent on the left was was novel in the 1980s in the general use of “political correctness” was updated to target the 2010s in the newer terms.
    - 4y ago
watwut 4y ago
This is not true. Woke is used conservatives use when they want to fismiss and insult, but don't have much argument.
- tux2bsd 4y ago
  Woke is used because we know who we're referring to, as do you.
tux2bsd 4y ago
- FranksTV 4y ago
  If your shirt is 90% one thing and 10% the other thing, I'm not sure the 90% is the stain.
  - tux2bsd 4y ago
    You prefer herd mentality, I understand. You'll change your mind if the rest of the flock decide, you avoid personal responsibility that way.
- sph 4y ago
  Crawl back to 4chan. While I agree that Reddit has turned too politically correct, it's obvious you're here just to troll, not have a discussion. Waiting for your insightful "that's pretty woke of you" retort.
  - tux2bsd 4y ago
    You haven't said anything of substance. Interesting that you choose to use the phrase "politically correct" which is interchangeable with "woke" in modern parlance. To quote myself: "Woke is used because we know who we're referring to, as do you."
Angostura 4y ago
‘Woke’ just means, open to the idea that the way you behave may have unintended negative effects on other, potentially disadvantaged folks and it’s worth changing the way you behave in these circumstances. So also - empathy.
- tux2bsd 4y ago
  - tinco 4y ago
    Lol yeah, I can really tell you're just chock-full of empathy by the way you're conducting yourself in this argument. Are you really unironically saying this or are you just trolling the "woke"? Who would you feel empathy for, it doesn't seem to be the woke left.
    - tux2bsd 4y ago
      - tinco 4y ago
        It's just a mindset, besides some minor beliefs they're just the same sort of people you are. I don't know if you'd consider me a leftist woke person, I feel that's something a younger generation is doing, and an older generation is enabling with the cancel culture and such. But I do feel the same way you do about the wokes about conservatives, when they're dismissive of climate change, when they're rejecting social medical care, when they're taxing the poor and benefiting the rich, when they're not understanding of the BLM protests, when they're taking away personal freedoms, when they're practicing their twisted version of Christianity when you know that if they ever met Jesus they'd be the first ones to nail them to the cross. I wish they'd snap out of their delusions and see how they're against everything they should be for.
        tux2bsd 4y ago
Angostura 4y ago
‘Woke’ just means, open to the idea that the way you behave may have unintended negative effects on other, potentially disadvantaged folks and it’s worth changing the way you behave in these circumstances. So also - empathy. I’m pretty proud to be called woke, and so should you be.
- tux2bsd 4y ago
  Manners, being courteous, polite and as you've said empathetic - these good behaviours all existed. That took parents to teach and individuals to act accordingly. It is a modern myth spread by main stream media that racism and sexism are prevalent. "Woke" (or "wokeness") is weaponised world view that is intolerant and dangerous.
  - Angostura 4y ago
    > It is a modern myth spread by main stream media that racism and sexism are prevalent. As a 50-something heterosexual white guy, I think you have to close your eyes really tight, stick your finger in your ears and shout ‘ nah nah nah’ repeatedly to believe that is true.
    - tux2bsd 4y ago
      What does your sexuality or race or age have to do with it?
noasaservice 4y ago
From Wikipedia: Woke is an English adjective meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for American Left ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans. The phrase stay woke had emerged in AAVE by the 1930s, in some contexts referring to an awareness of the social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in a recording by Lead Belly and later by Erykah Badu. Following the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, the phrase was popularised by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After seeing use on Black Twitter, the term woke became an Internet meme and was increasingly used by white people, often to signal their support for BLM, which some commentators have criticised as cultural appropriation. Mainly associated with the millennial generation, the term spread internationally and was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017. --------------- Being woke means that serving watermelon and fried chicken and collard greens on Juneteenth is an insult. (looking at the Children's Museum of Indianapolis) Being woke means understanding why "Circling the wagons" when around Native Americans would be a terrible insult. Being woke means understanding calling something a "cakewalk" brings up slave-history in the south where African Americans were forced to walk around and whoever "won" got a cake. Being woke means understanding the child's song "knick knack paddywhack, give a dog a bone" is referring to watching Irish die in the Famine, and would rather give a dog the cast-offs rather than the Irish. Being woke means understanding "Hip hip hurray" is a deeply antisemitic slur regarding the Hep-Hep riots in 19c Germany where many thousands of recently-freed Jews were lynched. Remembering and understanding these historically terrible sayings are bad to you and your fellow anti-woke people. Naturally, these sayings require a bit of maturity, intelligence, and understanding to see why these phrases are terrible - and not everyone practices in using those faculties on a regular basis. It all comes down to the same core beliefs: "my race/sex/demographic is superior, and theirs is subservient to mine." There are other terms for being "anti-woke". They usually wore white pointy hats, burned crosses in "undesirables" yards, and arranged public executions via tree and rope.
- tux2bsd 4y ago

Capricorn2481 4y ago

You just described both sides of the political spectrum for the past four decades, but chose to use a word that frames it as a unique phenomenon that is only applicable to a very specific kind of person. The "woke" insult has even less substance than what it's desperately trying to criticize.

tux2bsd 4y ago
> The "woke" insult That's one hell of self inflicted insult if that's how you feel. To quote myself: "Woke is used because we know who we're referring to, as do you."

bawolff 4y ago

You're basically just calling people names that have no commonly agreed definition. Something something about glass houses and stones.

unconed 4y ago
Why would it not have a definition? Here's one. "Woke": an extreme form of contradictory progressivism popularized in the 2010s, which favors censorship and ostracization over intellectual engagement. The idea that you can't define it is an example of the dynamics at play. The notion that non-woke people know exactly what's going on is unbearable to the woke. It implies that they are not at all "changing the status quo", but that they are the status quo. That their rebellious ideology is in fact the norm in corporate HR departments and colleges everywhere. That their behavior is in no way welcome, or positive, or empathetic, and is really just a LARP of the social causes of the late 20th century, divorced from principle and fact.
- Capricorn2481 4y ago
  The point being that was a definition pulled out of your ass that not everyone shares, and then you got on a soap box of opinion-based nonsense that you "feel" is right. You are speaking from nowhere but an emotional place and trying to dress it up in pseudo-intellectual analyses of the state of the world, and it shows. For some, the term Woke goes no farther than "they cast a black person in this movie."
  - tux2bsd 4y ago
    unconed is correct.
  - spamuel 4y ago
    His definition reflects very succinctly what I would consider wokeness in action. It's about consolidating power in institutions by ejecting noncompliants. If you embrace the language you will be embraced by the institution. If you reject the language you will be removed. Your actions or nuanced takes are immaterial. Embrace the ideology as prescribed, or suffer.
  - psyc 4y ago
    Arguing by “no agreed upon definition” is a transparent rhetorical bludgeon. Famously used to shut down discussion about hipsters many years ago. I hope most people will see through it.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > “Woke”: an extreme form of contradictory progressivism popularized in the 2010s, which favors censorship and ostracization over intellectual engagement. Yes, its used by the Right interchangeably with “cancel culture” as an abusive epithet with exactly the sense that the same faction used “political correctness” to communicate right up until they swapped in the new terms, except that the idea that the behavior attributed (falsely) as especially prevalent on the left was was novel in the 1980s in the general use of “political correctness” was updated to target the 2010s in the newer terms.
  - 4y ago

watwut 4y ago

This is not true. Woke is used conservatives use when they want to fismiss and insult, but don't have much argument.

tux2bsd 4y ago
Woke is used because we know who we're referring to, as do you.

tux2bsd 4y ago

FranksTV 4y ago
If your shirt is 90% one thing and 10% the other thing, I'm not sure the 90% is the stain.
- tux2bsd 4y ago
  You prefer herd mentality, I understand. You'll change your mind if the rest of the flock decide, you avoid personal responsibility that way.
sph 4y ago
Crawl back to 4chan. While I agree that Reddit has turned too politically correct, it's obvious you're here just to troll, not have a discussion. Waiting for your insightful "that's pretty woke of you" retort.
- tux2bsd 4y ago
  You haven't said anything of substance. Interesting that you choose to use the phrase "politically correct" which is interchangeable with "woke" in modern parlance. To quote myself: "Woke is used because we know who we're referring to, as do you."

Angostura 4y ago

‘Woke’ just means, open to the idea that the way you behave may have unintended negative effects on other, potentially disadvantaged folks and it’s worth changing the way you behave in these circumstances. So also - empathy.

tux2bsd 4y ago
- tinco 4y ago
  Lol yeah, I can really tell you're just chock-full of empathy by the way you're conducting yourself in this argument. Are you really unironically saying this or are you just trolling the "woke"? Who would you feel empathy for, it doesn't seem to be the woke left.
  - tux2bsd 4y ago
    - tinco 4y ago
      It's just a mindset, besides some minor beliefs they're just the same sort of people you are. I don't know if you'd consider me a leftist woke person, I feel that's something a younger generation is doing, and an older generation is enabling with the cancel culture and such. But I do feel the same way you do about the wokes about conservatives, when they're dismissive of climate change, when they're rejecting social medical care, when they're taxing the poor and benefiting the rich, when they're not understanding of the BLM protests, when they're taking away personal freedoms, when they're practicing their twisted version of Christianity when you know that if they ever met Jesus they'd be the first ones to nail them to the cross. I wish they'd snap out of their delusions and see how they're against everything they should be for.
      - tux2bsd 4y ago

Angostura 4y ago

tux2bsd 4y ago
Manners, being courteous, polite and as you've said empathetic - these good behaviours all existed. That took parents to teach and individuals to act accordingly. It is a modern myth spread by main stream media that racism and sexism are prevalent. "Woke" (or "wokeness") is weaponised world view that is intolerant and dangerous.
- Angostura 4y ago
  > It is a modern myth spread by main stream media that racism and sexism are prevalent. As a 50-something heterosexual white guy, I think you have to close your eyes really tight, stick your finger in your ears and shout ‘ nah nah nah’ repeatedly to believe that is true.
  - tux2bsd 4y ago
    What does your sexuality or race or age have to do with it?

noasaservice 4y ago

From Wikipedia: Woke is an English adjective meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for American Left ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans. The phrase stay woke had emerged in AAVE by the 1930s, in some contexts referring to an awareness of the social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in a recording by Lead Belly and later by Erykah Badu. Following the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, the phrase was popularised by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After seeing use on Black Twitter, the term woke became an Internet meme and was increasingly used by white people, often to signal their support for BLM, which some commentators have criticised as cultural appropriation. Mainly associated with the millennial generation, the term spread internationally and was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017. --------------- Being woke means that serving watermelon and fried chicken and collard greens on Juneteenth is an insult. (looking at the Children's Museum of Indianapolis) Being woke means understanding why "Circling the wagons" when around Native Americans would be a terrible insult. Being woke means understanding calling something a "cakewalk" brings up slave-history in the south where African Americans were forced to walk around and whoever "won" got a cake. Being woke means understanding the child's song "knick knack paddywhack, give a dog a bone" is referring to watching Irish die in the Famine, and would rather give a dog the cast-offs rather than the Irish. Being woke means understanding "Hip hip hurray" is a deeply antisemitic slur regarding the Hep-Hep riots in 19c Germany where many thousands of recently-freed Jews were lynched. Remembering and understanding these historically terrible sayings are bad to you and your fellow anti-woke people. Naturally, these sayings require a bit of maturity, intelligence, and understanding to see why these phrases are terrible - and not everyone practices in using those faculties on a regular basis. It all comes down to the same core beliefs: "my race/sex/demographic is superior, and theirs is subservient to mine." There are other terms for being "anti-woke". They usually wore white pointy hats, burned crosses in "undesirables" yards, and arranged public executions via tree and rope.

tux2bsd 4y ago