3 ms·

It's not the place. Don't shit where you eat. When you have these discussions at work people are forced to listen to your view, not only are they not getting pa

by _8j50 4y ago

It's not the place. Don't shit where you eat. When you have these discussions at work people are forced to listen to your view, not only are they not getting paid for that, their response will have consequences. Are you looking for coworkers to reaffirm your belief or an actual discussion? Because if it is the latter the Janet from accounting might feel strongly about capital punishment for women who abort, now should Janet get fired for her political views then (which are protected)? Would this affect your ability to work with Janet reducing her value to the business? Is it fair to forcibly shove your views on others with the threat of harming their career and livelihood otherwise? The workplace is not a social club. You can still socialize with willing coworkers after work where everyone is free to leave with no repurcursions.

woodruffw 4y ago
Where’s the force? Nobody is required to have lunch with me; nobody is required to respond to random off-topic messages on chat applications. We’re taking about the thing that each of us spends 1/3 of our weekdays doing. The majority of our waking hours. It’s one of the largest aspects of all our lives, and is fundamentally derived from the outcomes of very recent political battles over the roles of individual laborers. I believe that we owe it to ourselves and, as a basic matter of respect, to our coworkers, to have important discussions. If you don’t want that for yourself, then you can stick to sports and weather. That’s fine too!
- aahortwwy 4y ago
  > If you don’t want that for yourself, then you can stick to sports and weather. That’s fine too! If I had a private office and didn't have to block out background conversation with noise-cancelling headphones and loud music that would be fine, yeah. Happy I can mainly work from home nowadays.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    > If I had a private office and didn't have to block out background conversation with noise-cancelling headphones and loud music that would be fine, yeah. These sound like the kinds of employee privileges you’d like to negotiate for at work, ideally with multiple other coworkers backing you. The kind of thing that would ideally come from multiple discussions, some of which would ultimately boil down to your and your employer’s obligations. Let’s hope that won’t be too political for your taste, should you decide to stop working from home!
    - aahortwwy 4y ago
      The union I was in most recently had dedicated time for discussing and voting on matters important to members, and scheduled negotiations between our chosen representatives and our employer. I preferred that to being distracted at work.
      - woodruffw 4y ago
        Me too; I also don’t like to be distracted. And I mean this genuinely: it’s wonderful that you have a Union that you can use for those purposes. Most workers in the US, particularly tech workers, don’t. The fact that you do is a testament to the effectiveness of politics in the workplace.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Everything has a place. Use personal chat systems and have lunch with people outside of work. I have been asked to participate in things I disagreed with when I joined a new company for example and I couldn't refuse because that might mess up my reputation before I could prove myself. I have also worked jobs where coworkers argued and talked about religion and racial things and I was not senior and I was new and I had no desire to participate in their discussion yet I had no choice but to sit in the same room with them and listen to deeply offending and hurtful things. I do not get paid to hear your opinions about trump or minorities or whatever. Even after working at a place for years, it is very disheartening when people discuss bs that affects me personally yet if I even say anything it would be things that will offend them deeply. Off work I could speak my mind and refuse to paricipate in offwork activities but during work that declined chat request might offend you or you might see it as not supporting you or your cause. If I decline a request to chat about abortion for example, will you see it as a sign of my not supporting you? In that case it might affect how well you work with me? Then what? The person that has the upperhand in the power dynamic speaks and the other people agree?
epidemian 4y ago
As far i understood, this is about allowing or disallowing employees to discuss the ruling. Nobody is talking about forcing people to take part on the discussion or to pick a side —you always have the option not to participate on these things— so i'm not really getting where your point is coming from, sorry.
- _8j50 4y ago
  No you do not. Let'e bob goes on a rant about capital punishment against aborters or incarceration for gay people once that is also repealed. How will you feel as a pro choice person or a gay person? Will you not feel hurt in the slightest and will it not affect how you work and interact with bob? People like you must have always been in positions of power and priviledge. I have been at the other end enduring all sorts of horrific remarks and being forced to keep quiet to save my career. Now I look back at those jobs and the first thing I always remeber is how horrible it felt people saying ignorant and hurtful things day in and day out and being forced to listen to that or disagree and not get my contract renewed, and affect other political power dynamics that can literally ruin my life. So please sir/madam, don't shit where you eat. Not everyone appreciates the smell while they eat.
  - epidemian 4y ago
    > People like you must have always been... No need for these assumptions. Your argument is clear without them. Maybe you and i would not respond the same way on the same situation, and that's OK. Personally, when i had coworkers that would say things that i consider totally indefensible, yes, it made me feel terrible and angry, but at the same time, i was at least glad to now know who i was dealing with. I knew that person couldn't be trusted, and how i should (avoid to) interact with them. This is especially true for me in the cases where such person is a superior, or when nobody else in the organization calls on their shit; those are start-to-look-for-another-job situations for me personally. And, sincerely, i don't think banning such topics from work environments would work for these kind of cases. Those people will keep being the way they are and acting their shitty way when and where they feel they'll get away with it; you'll just may not know who they are, yet. Disclaimer: i'm not from the USA, or a "first world" country, so it's very possible for our cultures and work environments where we've been to be quite different.

by _8j50 4y ago

woodruffw 4y ago

Where’s the force? Nobody is required to have lunch with me; nobody is required to respond to random off-topic messages on chat applications. We’re taking about the thing that each of us spends 1/3 of our weekdays doing. The majority of our waking hours. It’s one of the largest aspects of all our lives, and is fundamentally derived from the outcomes of very recent political battles over the roles of individual laborers. I believe that we owe it to ourselves and, as a basic matter of respect, to our coworkers, to have important discussions. If you don’t want that for yourself, then you can stick to sports and weather. That’s fine too!

aahortwwy 4y ago
> If you don’t want that for yourself, then you can stick to sports and weather. That’s fine too! If I had a private office and didn't have to block out background conversation with noise-cancelling headphones and loud music that would be fine, yeah. Happy I can mainly work from home nowadays.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  > If I had a private office and didn't have to block out background conversation with noise-cancelling headphones and loud music that would be fine, yeah. These sound like the kinds of employee privileges you’d like to negotiate for at work, ideally with multiple other coworkers backing you. The kind of thing that would ideally come from multiple discussions, some of which would ultimately boil down to your and your employer’s obligations. Let’s hope that won’t be too political for your taste, should you decide to stop working from home!
  - aahortwwy 4y ago
    The union I was in most recently had dedicated time for discussing and voting on matters important to members, and scheduled negotiations between our chosen representatives and our employer. I preferred that to being distracted at work.
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      Me too; I also don’t like to be distracted. And I mean this genuinely: it’s wonderful that you have a Union that you can use for those purposes. Most workers in the US, particularly tech workers, don’t. The fact that you do is a testament to the effectiveness of politics in the workplace.
_8j50 4y ago
Everything has a place. Use personal chat systems and have lunch with people outside of work. I have been asked to participate in things I disagreed with when I joined a new company for example and I couldn't refuse because that might mess up my reputation before I could prove myself. I have also worked jobs where coworkers argued and talked about religion and racial things and I was not senior and I was new and I had no desire to participate in their discussion yet I had no choice but to sit in the same room with them and listen to deeply offending and hurtful things. I do not get paid to hear your opinions about trump or minorities or whatever. Even after working at a place for years, it is very disheartening when people discuss bs that affects me personally yet if I even say anything it would be things that will offend them deeply. Off work I could speak my mind and refuse to paricipate in offwork activities but during work that declined chat request might offend you or you might see it as not supporting you or your cause. If I decline a request to chat about abortion for example, will you see it as a sign of my not supporting you? In that case it might affect how well you work with me? Then what? The person that has the upperhand in the power dynamic speaks and the other people agree?

epidemian 4y ago

As far i understood, this is about allowing or disallowing employees to discuss the ruling. Nobody is talking about forcing people to take part on the discussion or to pick a side —you always have the option not to participate on these things— so i'm not really getting where your point is coming from, sorry.

_8j50 4y ago
No you do not. Let'e bob goes on a rant about capital punishment against aborters or incarceration for gay people once that is also repealed. How will you feel as a pro choice person or a gay person? Will you not feel hurt in the slightest and will it not affect how you work and interact with bob? People like you must have always been in positions of power and priviledge. I have been at the other end enduring all sorts of horrific remarks and being forced to keep quiet to save my career. Now I look back at those jobs and the first thing I always remeber is how horrible it felt people saying ignorant and hurtful things day in and day out and being forced to listen to that or disagree and not get my contract renewed, and affect other political power dynamics that can literally ruin my life. So please sir/madam, don't shit where you eat. Not everyone appreciates the smell while they eat.
- epidemian 4y ago
  > People like you must have always been... No need for these assumptions. Your argument is clear without them. Maybe you and i would not respond the same way on the same situation, and that's OK. Personally, when i had coworkers that would say things that i consider totally indefensible, yes, it made me feel terrible and angry, but at the same time, i was at least glad to now know who i was dealing with. I knew that person couldn't be trusted, and how i should (avoid to) interact with them. This is especially true for me in the cases where such person is a superior, or when nobody else in the organization calls on their shit; those are start-to-look-for-another-job situations for me personally. And, sincerely, i don't think banning such topics from work environments would work for these kind of cases. Those people will keep being the way they are and acting their shitty way when and where they feel they'll get away with it; you'll just may not know who they are, yet. Disclaimer: i'm not from the USA, or a "first world" country, so it's very possible for our cultures and work environments where we've been to be quite different.