5 ms·
A lot of things we do here would make them question our mental health. Say, pretending like you really need more than that $40,000 job the English major can get
by joshklein 15y ago
A lot of things we do here would make them question our mental health. Say, pretending like you really need more than that $40,000 job the English major can get that lets him live in a small but safe apartment in a fine neighborhood (that has plumbing, electricity, and sanitation) in a non-center-of-the-world American city, and shop for all the groceries he needs in the market 10 minutes away.
Anyway, for a community that loves Steve Jobs so dearly - a man who claims the Mac wouldn't have been so successful if not for that calligraphy class he took at Reed College - there's an awful lot of derision in these comments for non-engineering around here. Of course, this is also a guy that dropped out of school and taught himself technical skills. Just enough to be dangerous... and convince someone like Woz to help him out. Or maybe that was the LSD and Buddhism talking.
- redthrowaway 15y agoExcept that the case of Jobs is a perfect illustration of the grandparent's point: he dropped out of Reed College because he couldn't justify the expense to himself. He audited the calligraphy class, and slept on floors and couches. So he didn't go $100k into debt to take those classes with the expectation it would land him a good job; he sat in on them because he was interested in them but recognized they were a bad investment.
- philwelch 15y agoAnd really, a strategy that relies on you being Steve Jobs isn't exactly a strategy that necessarily works for anyone else.
- pingswept 15y agoSure, Jobs audited the calligraphy class, but he was able to do so because there was a liberal arts college running the class. The point is that the calligraphy class had substantial value later on, at least in the mind of Steve Jobs.
- redthrowaway 15y agoI'm not arguing against the existence of liberal arts colleges; I did a philosophy degree before going into computer science and I'm happy I did. I'm saying that Jobs' experiences and influences aren't really a counter-argument to the idea that people getting liberal arts and humanities degrees likely aren't doing so as a considered investment in their future earning potential.
- ceol 15y agoI think Josh's point is that Jobs' success came from the inspiration he got from his calligraphy class— not an engineering degree. He was never really an engineer. And I agree with him: many tech-oriented sites tend to think the only jobs that (should) exist end in "Science" or "Engineering". Does the entertainment industry not fuel economic growth? Would Netflix be popular if we didn't have movies and television shows to stream? Would smartphones be pushing the envelope if all they did was allow you to check your email and take calls? Do we not laud video games that have fantastic stories and artwork? I've even seen commenters express superiority between the science degrees. For instance, "Computer Science isn't really a science. It's just math!" and, "You can't call yourself a software engineer! Real engineers get qualifications! Real engineers do something that can affect public safety!" are both common sentiments. Why is this? Do these people really not see the importance of the liberal arts, even when their own work is heavily reliant on them?
- jshen 15y agoIt's supply and demand. The output from college isn't matching the needs of those hiring. There aren't enough qualified programmers, math types, etc. This isn't true for many other majors, yet our colleges output far more of these other majors.
- ceol 15y agoI think that's because those majors appeal to more people. It makes sense that the most sought-after jobs are the ones that appeal to the least amount of people. My completely uneducated opinion is that middle and high school should do what colleges are supposed to: prepare students for the real world with useful skills. Teach them how to teach themselves. Then, when they go to college, they can focus on a subject they really want and not treat it like Camp College™.
- westicle 15y agoI think you mean that the most sought-after employees work in jobs that appeal to the least amount of people. Surely if the job doesn't appeal to many people, it is an oxymoron to say it is the most sought-after job.
- forensic 15y agoNo supporter of the liberal arts claims that it's the degree that counts. It's the education that counts. Jobs got his liberal education even if he didn't get his degree -- and it shows.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- phil 15y agoJobs made that point even more explicitly: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0f1ocmoGG1qz50x3.png http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0f1ocmoGG1qz50x3.png
- firebones 15y agoAnd the quote that goes with it: "We’ve always tried to be at the intersection of technology and liberal arts, to be able to get the best of both, to make extremely advanced products from a technology point of view, but also have them be intuitive, easy to use, fun to use, so that they really fit the users – the users don’t have to come to them, they come to the user.” --Steve Jobs
- phil 15y agoIf only everyone guided their work by those principles. The world of consumer technology would be a much better place.
- rphlx 15y agoNot really. Variety is a good thing and nerdy, advanced users often prefer nerdy, advanced products. I would hate to live in a world with just the iPhone and no Android.
- sliverstorm 15y agoBut does the lack of an English major prevent you from securing a $40,000 job?
- zachrose 15y agoIn absolute terms, no. But likewise, lack of a high school diploma doesn't prevent you from becoming a music star.
- cageface 15y agoThe 40k job was only available to you in the US thanks to our uniquely privileged position in the world in the second half of the 20th century. In a global labor market you're going to have to provide a lot more real value to earn such a generous salary.