8 ms·

There's way too much emotion in politics these days. I would like to see a return of rational discourse. I've had my fill of both the screaming liberals and the

by Flankk 4y ago

There's way too much emotion in politics these days. I would like to see a return of rational discourse. I've had my fill of both the screaming liberals and the dusty conservatives. Most of the complex issues deal with morality so it's probably all for naught. The tip of the morality pyramid is God for most people. No point using empirical evidence when you don't believe in it to begin with.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
killdozer 4y ago
- Flankk 4y ago
  Emotions are feelings. You don't have control of them but you do have control over your actions and your speech. If we agree that policies should be rational, then we agree that emotions are non-productive here. The human rights you are talking about are not fundamental in any way, they are contrived. If the state does not protect human life, then nobody will. The issue is not as simple as you've made it out to be.
  - alisonkisk 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- heywoodlh 4y ago
  > like we approach discussions around kubernetes I've already deployed my CloudNative Political Belief System in a fault-tolerant EKS cluster with a fully implemented CI/CD pipeline. > Yes i wish people would stop being so emotional about their rights being stripped from them On a more serious note, I appreciate this sarcasm as my wife and I were devastated about this news because of how we feel it impacts us (we're done with having kids and the idea of getting pregnant again due to the rare chance of contraceptive failure is pretty scary for us). I feel like I am pretty sympathetic to the intention behind being both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" and this decision to overturn Roe vs Wade still made me feel very upset. As this sarcastic comment eludes to, I am sure that others are far more devastated by this (imagine if you were a pregnant person planning on getting an abortion in Texas right now). I definitely have been re-evaluating my lack of sensitivity when I have asked or expected others to be level-headed when something infringes on what they feel is important. It has been a paradigm shift for me to feel so impacted by this -- and I'm not even a woman. My reaction to Roe vs Wade being overturned has definitely has highlighted my privilege in my life. I'm not saying the parent comment of asking for less emotion in politics is being insensitive -- I just have always held a similar perspective of "less emotion in politics would be better for everyone" and for me I think it was often coming from a place of privilege.
  - MandieD 4y ago
    As someone who had a surprise (but most welcome) pregnancy at 40, many years after an ectopic one, I’m coming to grips with the fact that my home state’s government, and possibly a large percentage of its residents including most of my close relatives, are ok with me dying if I have another ectopic and happen to be visiting when things get critical. “But there are exceptions for the life of the mother, and an ectopic surely is that!” How many women won’t seek medical help when the pain and bleeding start because they think it might be a “normal” miscarriage and are scared of being investigated for inducing an abortion? I have the privilege of a German residence permit and a healthy bank account that would normally mean I could hop on a flight to my chosen home the next day to get medical assistance without fear, but in the age of Covid, that assumption has been overturned as well.
    - clifdweller 4y ago
      i think that will be the major test to strike down any ban law that does not have triage protected. it's a tough one cause both physical and mental conditions need to be considered and thus will have different medical opinions of which politicians opinions should play no part.
      - MandieD 4y ago
        And in the meantime, women will die of causes we’ve been easily treating in developed countries for decades, because they’re scared of seeking assistance, or medical professionals are hesitant to get involved in something that could result in criminal charges.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    An appeal to fewer emotions in politics can sometimes come from a place of privilege, but I'm coming to realize that it's still USEFUL. I'm also in an odd, semi-orthogonal situation: I'm a homosexual female of child-bearing age, so while I may be impacted by this, it's far less likely than for other women and the situation would always be one of those tricky exceptions (plus, since most women are raped by men they know... if you know me and you rape me without murdering me, you're an idiot, and dead women don't get pregnant). The issue with things being too emotional isn't that the emotions are bad or that people don't need support. They absolutely do. The issue is that if we ONLY focus on emotions and keep ourselves in panicked, fight-or-flight mode for all of our waking hours that we can't plan or strategize effectively. Deciding what to DO to make change requires a little emotional distance. I think it's possible to both acknowledge the devastation people are feeling while also thinking it's counter-productive to ONLY have that conversation.
- gedy 4y ago
  I think the point is it's counterproductive when people run with their emotions. E.g. interrupting some local Catholic mass may feel like a good vent, but it hardens people against you even further and drives reactions at the polls which is the only thing that matters.
gizmo385 4y ago
> There's way too much emotion in politics these days. I would like to see a return of rational discourse. Politics affect people's daily lives. Suggesting that people should just ignore the inherent emotional component of these decisions and the impact that they have on our lives is both incredibly unrealistic and quite a privileged position to occupy.
- LocalH 4y ago
  Regardless, the actual policies should not be driven by emotion. The problem is, those in power weaponize the emotions of their constituents, and it makes very bad politics.
HWR_14 4y ago
> The tip of the morality pyramid is God for most people I don't believe this is true in western societies anymore. Even in the US, people who describe themselves as "very religious" or belong to a church are the minority.
- Flankk 4y ago
  I looked it up and it's in decline but still three-quarters of America. Half of Americans said their religion is very important in their own life. https://news.gallup.com/poll/358364/religious-americans.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/358364/religious-americans.aspx
- toofy 4y ago
  > people who describe themselves as "very religious" or belong to a church are the minority. i’m not sure this is at all an accurate depiction of americans and religion. last i looked into it—which admittedly was like two years ago—an absolutely terrifying number of americans believed in angels and god. if i’m remembering correctly, it was a wild shocking number, like more than 70%. i mean, if we’re limiting it to only self-described “very religious” maybe, but believing in god and angels is suspect enough in a persons rational judgement and that absolutely is not a minority of people.
  - LocalH 4y ago
    There is no single depiction of "Americans and religion". The country is too large, physically, for that to be the case. I wouldn't even break it down to state level. I'd personally break it down closer to county level.
alisonkisk 4y ago
loldk 4y ago
The people you speak of cannot learn and grow out of their false paradigms unless they are given the chance to fail. Silencing them is a recipe for a chain reaction / cascade of failures. It is not a winning strategy.

by Flankk 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

killdozer 4y ago

Flankk 4y ago
Emotions are feelings. You don't have control of them but you do have control over your actions and your speech. If we agree that policies should be rational, then we agree that emotions are non-productive here. The human rights you are talking about are not fundamental in any way, they are contrived. If the state does not protect human life, then nobody will. The issue is not as simple as you've made it out to be.
- alisonkisk 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
heywoodlh 4y ago
> like we approach discussions around kubernetes I've already deployed my CloudNative Political Belief System in a fault-tolerant EKS cluster with a fully implemented CI/CD pipeline. > Yes i wish people would stop being so emotional about their rights being stripped from them On a more serious note, I appreciate this sarcasm as my wife and I were devastated about this news because of how we feel it impacts us (we're done with having kids and the idea of getting pregnant again due to the rare chance of contraceptive failure is pretty scary for us). I feel like I am pretty sympathetic to the intention behind being both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" and this decision to overturn Roe vs Wade still made me feel very upset. As this sarcastic comment eludes to, I am sure that others are far more devastated by this (imagine if you were a pregnant person planning on getting an abortion in Texas right now). I definitely have been re-evaluating my lack of sensitivity when I have asked or expected others to be level-headed when something infringes on what they feel is important. It has been a paradigm shift for me to feel so impacted by this -- and I'm not even a woman. My reaction to Roe vs Wade being overturned has definitely has highlighted my privilege in my life. I'm not saying the parent comment of asking for less emotion in politics is being insensitive -- I just have always held a similar perspective of "less emotion in politics would be better for everyone" and for me I think it was often coming from a place of privilege.
- MandieD 4y ago
  As someone who had a surprise (but most welcome) pregnancy at 40, many years after an ectopic one, I’m coming to grips with the fact that my home state’s government, and possibly a large percentage of its residents including most of my close relatives, are ok with me dying if I have another ectopic and happen to be visiting when things get critical. “But there are exceptions for the life of the mother, and an ectopic surely is that!” How many women won’t seek medical help when the pain and bleeding start because they think it might be a “normal” miscarriage and are scared of being investigated for inducing an abortion? I have the privilege of a German residence permit and a healthy bank account that would normally mean I could hop on a flight to my chosen home the next day to get medical assistance without fear, but in the age of Covid, that assumption has been overturned as well.
  - clifdweller 4y ago
    i think that will be the major test to strike down any ban law that does not have triage protected. it's a tough one cause both physical and mental conditions need to be considered and thus will have different medical opinions of which politicians opinions should play no part.
    - MandieD 4y ago
      And in the meantime, women will die of causes we’ve been easily treating in developed countries for decades, because they’re scared of seeking assistance, or medical professionals are hesitant to get involved in something that could result in criminal charges.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  An appeal to fewer emotions in politics can sometimes come from a place of privilege, but I'm coming to realize that it's still USEFUL. I'm also in an odd, semi-orthogonal situation: I'm a homosexual female of child-bearing age, so while I may be impacted by this, it's far less likely than for other women and the situation would always be one of those tricky exceptions (plus, since most women are raped by men they know... if you know me and you rape me without murdering me, you're an idiot, and dead women don't get pregnant). The issue with things being too emotional isn't that the emotions are bad or that people don't need support. They absolutely do. The issue is that if we ONLY focus on emotions and keep ourselves in panicked, fight-or-flight mode for all of our waking hours that we can't plan or strategize effectively. Deciding what to DO to make change requires a little emotional distance. I think it's possible to both acknowledge the devastation people are feeling while also thinking it's counter-productive to ONLY have that conversation.
gedy 4y ago
I think the point is it's counterproductive when people run with their emotions. E.g. interrupting some local Catholic mass may feel like a good vent, but it hardens people against you even further and drives reactions at the polls which is the only thing that matters.

gizmo385 4y ago

> There's way too much emotion in politics these days. I would like to see a return of rational discourse. Politics affect people's daily lives. Suggesting that people should just ignore the inherent emotional component of these decisions and the impact that they have on our lives is both incredibly unrealistic and quite a privileged position to occupy.

LocalH 4y ago
Regardless, the actual policies should not be driven by emotion. The problem is, those in power weaponize the emotions of their constituents, and it makes very bad politics.

HWR_14 4y ago

> The tip of the morality pyramid is God for most people I don't believe this is true in western societies anymore. Even in the US, people who describe themselves as "very religious" or belong to a church are the minority.

Flankk 4y ago
I looked it up and it's in decline but still three-quarters of America. Half of Americans said their religion is very important in their own life. https://news.gallup.com/poll/358364/religious-americans.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/358364/religious-americans.aspx
toofy 4y ago
> people who describe themselves as "very religious" or belong to a church are the minority. i’m not sure this is at all an accurate depiction of americans and religion. last i looked into it—which admittedly was like two years ago—an absolutely terrifying number of americans believed in angels and god. if i’m remembering correctly, it was a wild shocking number, like more than 70%. i mean, if we’re limiting it to only self-described “very religious” maybe, but believing in god and angels is suspect enough in a persons rational judgement and that absolutely is not a minority of people.
- LocalH 4y ago
  There is no single depiction of "Americans and religion". The country is too large, physically, for that to be the case. I wouldn't even break it down to state level. I'd personally break it down closer to county level.

alisonkisk 4y ago

loldk 4y ago

The people you speak of cannot learn and grow out of their false paradigms unless they are given the chance to fail. Silencing them is a recipe for a chain reaction / cascade of failures. It is not a winning strategy.