3 ms·

I wonder if this could be an artifact created by the sensitivity, or rather the lack thereof, of the measuring instrument. Or to say another way, the instrumen

I wonder if this could be an artifact created by the sensitivity, or rather the lack thereof, of the measuring instrument. Or to say another way, the instrument is limited by the same physical bounds that the system being measured is. Or maybe it’s a stroboscopic effect like car wheels spinning so fast they look like they’re not moving.

frozenport 4y ago
Or maybe it's what the wikipedia article says?
- alexfromapex 4y ago
  I’m simply offering a possible underlying cause. I’m not denying it’s a real phenomenon.
  - ShamelessC 4y ago
    You're suggesting there's a misleading flaw in the measurement device itself which is a different phenomenon than the article describes (in which a particle's normal evolution through time _actually_ decays when measured).
- sumy23 4y ago
  It's always a bit terrifying to me how often I see people on Hacker News confidently asserting some phenomenon can be explained by something that any rational person would recognize as non-nonsensical.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - alexfromapex 4y ago
    One person’s terror is another person’s Appeal to the Stone.
    - sumy23 4y ago
      Really? An entire Wikipedia article filled with detailed explanation of the phenomenon and its cause is an appeal to the stone? Really? Sorry, but that is absurd.
Strilanc 4y ago
This effect is derived from the mathematical axioms that define quantum mechanics. It has nothing to do with instrument error or strobing. In fact it works best if there's no instrument error. Instrument error creates chances for the system you're trying to pin down to escape.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  I think the poster you are replying to is suggesting a physical interpretation of QM
rpz 4y ago
Here is an example of the effect straight from the article: > The ion trap was then regularly "measured" by applying a sequence of ultraviolet pulses during the RF pulse. As expected, the ultraviolet pulses suppressed the evolution of the system into the excited state. Not sure why this parent comment is bothering others so much. If applying pulses of UV light is considered as an example of taking a measurement then I don’t see how I could be surprised when someone wonders whether or not the measurement itself is more than just an observation. Atoms are sensitive to changes in electric and magnetic fields. Wine glasses are sensitive to being struck with a hammer. I can detect whether I just smashed glass with a hammer by listening for the sound the glass made when it was smashed to a billion pieces.
- sumy23 4y ago
  All measurement, but especially so at the quantum scale, involves interacting with the observed subject. One of the observations made by quantum mechanics is that you can't observe a system without interacting / altering it in some way. To give you a macroscopic example, the way you detect the color of an object is to apply electromagnetic radiation in the visible light spectrum to the object and see which wavelengths are absorbed and reflected. The process of absorption and reflection is a physical interaction with the object you're looking at.

frozenport 4y ago

Or maybe it's what the wikipedia article says?

alexfromapex 4y ago
I’m simply offering a possible underlying cause. I’m not denying it’s a real phenomenon.
- ShamelessC 4y ago
  You're suggesting there's a misleading flaw in the measurement device itself which is a different phenomenon than the article describes (in which a particle's normal evolution through time _actually_ decays when measured).
sumy23 4y ago
It's always a bit terrifying to me how often I see people on Hacker News confidently asserting some phenomenon can be explained by something that any rational person would recognize as non-nonsensical.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- alexfromapex 4y ago
  One person’s terror is another person’s Appeal to the Stone.
  - sumy23 4y ago
    Really? An entire Wikipedia article filled with detailed explanation of the phenomenon and its cause is an appeal to the stone? Really? Sorry, but that is absurd.

Strilanc 4y ago

This effect is derived from the mathematical axioms that define quantum mechanics. It has nothing to do with instrument error or strobing. In fact it works best if there's no instrument error. Instrument error creates chances for the system you're trying to pin down to escape.

bowsamic 4y ago
I think the poster you are replying to is suggesting a physical interpretation of QM

rpz 4y ago

Here is an example of the effect straight from the article: > The ion trap was then regularly "measured" by applying a sequence of ultraviolet pulses during the RF pulse. As expected, the ultraviolet pulses suppressed the evolution of the system into the excited state. Not sure why this parent comment is bothering others so much. If applying pulses of UV light is considered as an example of taking a measurement then I don’t see how I could be surprised when someone wonders whether or not the measurement itself is more than just an observation. Atoms are sensitive to changes in electric and magnetic fields. Wine glasses are sensitive to being struck with a hammer. I can detect whether I just smashed glass with a hammer by listening for the sound the glass made when it was smashed to a billion pieces.

sumy23 4y ago
All measurement, but especially so at the quantum scale, involves interacting with the observed subject. One of the observations made by quantum mechanics is that you can't observe a system without interacting / altering it in some way. To give you a macroscopic example, the way you detect the color of an object is to apply electromagnetic radiation in the visible light spectrum to the object and see which wavelengths are absorbed and reflected. The process of absorption and reflection is a physical interaction with the object you're looking at.