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It really depends on the specific situation. Public space is for everyone’s enjoyment. Unfortunately, some people take advantage of their right to the space in
by sumy23 4y ago
It really depends on the specific situation. Public space is for everyone’s enjoyment. Unfortunately, some people take advantage of their right to the space in a way that detracts from everyone. Take a park for example. Typically, a great place to take your kids. However, if someone strung out on heroin loiters in the park, it suddenly becomes a much worse place for everyone else. Technically, being high on heroin in a public place isn’t a crime. This person is well within their rights to use the public space. But in many cases, people like this form a small minority that ruins the public space for everyone. Discouraging this type of person is actually maximizing the utility of public space.
- pgt 4y agoBy...removing the park?
- sandworm101 4y agoIf you remove a vehicle lane then traffic is reduced. Pull up the sidewalks and loitering pedestrians disappear. Remove the parks and there will be fewer people sleeping in parks. Under-inclusive metrics generally lead to poor decisions.
- uoaei 4y agoVehicles are the only things that use traffic lanes. Pedestrians are the only things that use sidewalks. Heroin addicts are not the only things that use parks, unless your neighborhood is very disjointed and sad.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> Technically, being high on heroin in a public place isn’t a crime. That's hard to believe. If it's apparent to anyone else, it will be a crime in a few different ways. For example: > A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he or she: > (1) Engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; [or] > (2) Makes unreasonable noise or offensively coarse utterance, gesture or display, or addresses abusive language to any person present ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/11.441 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/11.441 , apparently a rule of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, but the crime exists everywhere with somewhat variable definitions.)
- repiret 4y agoDo you really think people stung out on heroin do so "with purpose to cause public inconvenience"? That said, chances are most jurisdictions have some variation of "dunk in public" that isn't as particular about the intoxicant. Even so, the criminal justice system hasn't proven itself to be an especially good solution to substance abusers.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> Do you really think people st[r]ung out on heroin do so "with purpose to cause public inconvenience"? No, but as you'll note that is not an element of the crime. It suffices to act in a way that "recklessly creates a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm".
- sumy23 4y agoI wouldn’t say heroin addicts act with purpose to cause inconvenience. They do cause inconvenience, but that’s not the purpose of their actions.
- thaumasiotes 4y agoHow is that a response to my comment? Why would it matter whether they have the purpose of causing inconvenience? It's not an element of the crime.
- uoaei 4y agoBecause that's the language of the very statutes cited above.
- c22 4y agoI guess this is why people hire lawyers...
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
- uoaei 4y agoI would really prefer to humanize those people and develop systems in place so they can find the help they need, rather than having sleeping in what is probably the safest possible place they have access to, from a personal safety standpoint. If it makes you feel better about your own society that society would rather hide its flaws from public view than actually solve them, find solace in the fact that the blight and detritus you identify would also be solved if those people were given the treatment they deserve.
- asveikau 4y agoI think a guy on heroin in a park could easily not be noticed. This exact scenario happens harmlessly in major cities. You're overestimating the danger of happening to be in the same park as that person.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoThe needles they leave lying around are noticed and harmful.
- asveikau 4y agoNot every heroin user in a park leaves their needles behind, just as not every person who eats lunch in a park leaves litter behind.
- MichaelZuo 4y agoThe standard practice on HN is to take the most charitable interpretation of the parent.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- pshirshov 4y ago> It really depends on the specific situation. Public space is for everyone’s enjoyment. Unfortunately, some people take advantage of their right to the space in a way that detracts from everyone. Take a park for example. Typically, a great place to take your kids. However, if someone $PROPERTY loiters in the park, it suddenly becomes a much worse place for everyone else. Technically, being $PROPERTY in a public place isn’t a crime. This person is well within their rights to use the public space. But in many cases, people like this form a small minority that ruins the public space for everyone. Discouraging this type of person is actually maximizing the utility of public space. PROPERTY={high on heroin | fat | ugly | gay | disabled | autistic | ... }
- r3muxd 4y agoCan you really compare being strung out on heroin with being ugly, though?
- pshirshov 4y agoYeah, in my country of origin exactly this rhetoric is used against every minority, from gay people to disabled people. Yeah, they intentionally make places _inaccessible_ for disabled and push autistic children out of schools.