4 ms·

My elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. I had this idea a few years ago of how would he experience the world if he'd sud

My elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. I had this idea a few years ago of how would he experience the world if he'd suddenly become healthy. How would he deal with his previous life, etc. I once mentioned my thoughts to my boss during a lunch and he told me there's already a novel about it. That's how I've discovered Flowers for Algernon.

dontbenebby 4y ago
Sorry about your brother, I had a friend die waiting on an organ transplant when I was in single digits and I have no siblings. People focus a lot of things like being nice regardless of race or social class, but trauma holds you back and no algorithm takes it into account that I've seen, just measures things to the side. I'm glad you had a supportive leader who gave you something enriching for the soul to read.
- sslapec 4y ago
  That's kind, thank you. I'm sorry for your friend. I hope you did cope with the trauma somehow.
  - dontbenebby 4y ago
    I'm glad you thought it was kind, I try to be when I can. We were in single digits, agewise. Appalachian youths, forever at risk, but this was before the internet became what it is now. At first I coped by trying to get people to opt in to organ donation, because he had been waiting for a liver. Then later I tried to get people registered to vote, so we could change the system that traumatized us. And finally, after many years of being a peaceful activist, I put the word out that if they are going to seize power and never return it, then every promise made to that day is void and someone like me might make every piece of electronics in their McMansions or municipalities fail like they're cameras in Metropolitan Correctional Center just before they get in the ground with Jeffrey Epstein if that's what it takes to ensure folks never abuse their access ever again. (In short: I coped with it by becoming a dissident, but that does not bring you joy, and I very purposefully avoided working with anyone under 18 on these matters because it is unethical to teach children that such a life is cool or fun, rather than a path that should be chosen as an absolute last resort.)
    - nomorecodehere8 4y ago
      There is no way you will change the system other than to revoke it the way the current woke generation is trying to do. Revocation hurts others and makes this approach anathema to them. What eventuates is hate, mistrust, opportunism and fear. Eventually the united states will fail because of magnified personal injury delivered to agenda that does not meet the test of improvement for everyone. Because we are short sighted, intolerant and arrogant. Like you.
rayiner 4y ago
Awakenings with Robin Williams (in a serious role) is another exploration of that issue. Incredibly touching movie.
nobody9999 4y ago
>My elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. I had this idea a few years ago of how would he experience the world if he'd suddenly become healthy. How would he deal with his previous life, etc. I once mentioned my thoughts to my boss during a lunch and he told me there's already a novel about it. That's how I've discovered Flowers for Algernon. I have a close relative with signficant dementia. Which, in this case, really is like a reverse Flowers for Algernon. The person in question was incredibly smart, well educated, erudite, resourceful and very successful in her chosen field. She was always my go to person for career advice, as she had both the experience and the cognitive skills to insightfully analyze circumstances and make cogent, relevant recommendations. As she declined, she was still compensating for her partner's declining capacities. But that's all gone now. Some part of her is still in there (honestly, I hope not too much as she'd be incredibly angry and unhappy with her cognitive decline), but she's no longer able to express reasoned ideas or even have a normal conversation (she might answer a question if you ask and she might not -- and even then it's difficult for her to express herself except in the most basic terms) with other people. And that fills me with sadness because I've lost that wonderful human who was a part of my life for so long. It may seem cruel, but it feels almost worse than if she'd died. Her body is there. Some small vestige of her personality still exists, but the person I knew is gone. I still love her and my family and I make sure she knows she's loved and gets the care she requires, but I mourn the loss of the woman she was. :( I read Flowers for Algernon (FFA) as a child and was quite troubled by Charlie's story arc. Especially as at the peak of his abilities, he really turns into an arrogant asshole with little patience for the idiots (as he perceived them) around him. I wasn't glad when Charlie's decline happened, but I was struck with the compassion and caring of the science team who did this to him. That opens up some ethical questions, but I'm sure those will be addressed elsewhere in this discussion.
- kelnos 4y ago
  > It may seem cruel, but it feels almost worse than if she'd died. I don't think it's cruel at all. For the person suffering dementia, they are no longer that person, and they must be confused all the time, and stressed out about being confused. It sounds like a miserable way to live, if you can call that "living". For everyone else, the person they love is gone, but there is a constant physical reminder of who they used to be. Everyone loses. > Especially as at the peak of his abilities, he really turns into an arrogant asshole with little patience for the idiots (as he perceived them) around him. I think that's to be expected; consider if you gave a 3-year-old the mental capacity of a genius-level adult. They don't have the emotional development or maturity to deal with it. Charlie is similar. I actually think of it the other way: Charlie adapted remarkably well to his newfound intelligence, given his lack of understanding of the world beforehand. He certainly wasn't perfect, but I think many/most people would fare worse.
marktangotango 4y ago
> My elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. My wife had a great uncle who was similarly afflicted; at home child birth, this sort of brain damage was not uncommon in the early part of the last century. He was non verbal, he communicated in grunts and gestures. When I knew him his family had all passed away. My mother in law, his niece was his guardian. He lived in an assisted living facility for the 30+ years before he died a few years ago. My wife made a point of our family visiting him for the holidays. We were often the only visitors he'd have for the entire year. Then his health took a turn and my wife became more involved. We visited him one final time when he was in hospice and near death. Seeing that poor shell of a man in obvious pain was the saddest, most pitiful thing I have ever seen. It broke my heart to see what had become of his life, and how his parents would have Grieved to see what became of him. Dear internet stranger, I hope you're able to cherish the time you have with your brother.

dontbenebby 4y ago

Sorry about your brother, I had a friend die waiting on an organ transplant when I was in single digits and I have no siblings. People focus a lot of things like being nice regardless of race or social class, but trauma holds you back and no algorithm takes it into account that I've seen, just measures things to the side. I'm glad you had a supportive leader who gave you something enriching for the soul to read.

sslapec 4y ago
That's kind, thank you. I'm sorry for your friend. I hope you did cope with the trauma somehow.
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  I'm glad you thought it was kind, I try to be when I can. We were in single digits, agewise. Appalachian youths, forever at risk, but this was before the internet became what it is now. At first I coped by trying to get people to opt in to organ donation, because he had been waiting for a liver. Then later I tried to get people registered to vote, so we could change the system that traumatized us. And finally, after many years of being a peaceful activist, I put the word out that if they are going to seize power and never return it, then every promise made to that day is void and someone like me might make every piece of electronics in their McMansions or municipalities fail like they're cameras in Metropolitan Correctional Center just before they get in the ground with Jeffrey Epstein if that's what it takes to ensure folks never abuse their access ever again. (In short: I coped with it by becoming a dissident, but that does not bring you joy, and I very purposefully avoided working with anyone under 18 on these matters because it is unethical to teach children that such a life is cool or fun, rather than a path that should be chosen as an absolute last resort.)
  - nomorecodehere8 4y ago
    There is no way you will change the system other than to revoke it the way the current woke generation is trying to do. Revocation hurts others and makes this approach anathema to them. What eventuates is hate, mistrust, opportunism and fear. Eventually the united states will fail because of magnified personal injury delivered to agenda that does not meet the test of improvement for everyone. Because we are short sighted, intolerant and arrogant. Like you.

rayiner 4y ago

Awakenings with Robin Williams (in a serious role) is another exploration of that issue. Incredibly touching movie.

nobody9999 4y ago

>My elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. I had this idea a few years ago of how would he experience the world if he'd suddenly become healthy. How would he deal with his previous life, etc. I once mentioned my thoughts to my boss during a lunch and he told me there's already a novel about it. That's how I've discovered Flowers for Algernon. I have a close relative with signficant dementia. Which, in this case, really is like a reverse Flowers for Algernon. The person in question was incredibly smart, well educated, erudite, resourceful and very successful in her chosen field. She was always my go to person for career advice, as she had both the experience and the cognitive skills to insightfully analyze circumstances and make cogent, relevant recommendations. As she declined, she was still compensating for her partner's declining capacities. But that's all gone now. Some part of her is still in there (honestly, I hope not too much as she'd be incredibly angry and unhappy with her cognitive decline), but she's no longer able to express reasoned ideas or even have a normal conversation (she might answer a question if you ask and she might not -- and even then it's difficult for her to express herself except in the most basic terms) with other people. And that fills me with sadness because I've lost that wonderful human who was a part of my life for so long. It may seem cruel, but it feels almost worse than if she'd died. Her body is there. Some small vestige of her personality still exists, but the person I knew is gone. I still love her and my family and I make sure she knows she's loved and gets the care she requires, but I mourn the loss of the woman she was. :( I read Flowers for Algernon (FFA) as a child and was quite troubled by Charlie's story arc. Especially as at the peak of his abilities, he really turns into an arrogant asshole with little patience for the idiots (as he perceived them) around him. I wasn't glad when Charlie's decline happened, but I was struck with the compassion and caring of the science team who did this to him. That opens up some ethical questions, but I'm sure those will be addressed elsewhere in this discussion.

kelnos 4y ago
> It may seem cruel, but it feels almost worse than if she'd died. I don't think it's cruel at all. For the person suffering dementia, they are no longer that person, and they must be confused all the time, and stressed out about being confused. It sounds like a miserable way to live, if you can call that "living". For everyone else, the person they love is gone, but there is a constant physical reminder of who they used to be. Everyone loses. > Especially as at the peak of his abilities, he really turns into an arrogant asshole with little patience for the idiots (as he perceived them) around him. I think that's to be expected; consider if you gave a 3-year-old the mental capacity of a genius-level adult. They don't have the emotional development or maturity to deal with it. Charlie is similar. I actually think of it the other way: Charlie adapted remarkably well to his newfound intelligence, given his lack of understanding of the world beforehand. He certainly wasn't perfect, but I think many/most people would fare worse.

marktangotango 4y ago

> My elder brother is mentally challenged due to lack of oxygen when he was born. My wife had a great uncle who was similarly afflicted; at home child birth, this sort of brain damage was not uncommon in the early part of the last century. He was non verbal, he communicated in grunts and gestures. When I knew him his family had all passed away. My mother in law, his niece was his guardian. He lived in an assisted living facility for the 30+ years before he died a few years ago. My wife made a point of our family visiting him for the holidays. We were often the only visitors he'd have for the entire year. Then his health took a turn and my wife became more involved. We visited him one final time when he was in hospice and near death. Seeing that poor shell of a man in obvious pain was the saddest, most pitiful thing I have ever seen. It broke my heart to see what had become of his life, and how his parents would have Grieved to see what became of him. Dear internet stranger, I hope you're able to cherish the time you have with your brother.