4 ms·

The answer is not sending them to a unaccredited strip center mall charter school like some people want. Or a bible thumping parochial that doesn’t teach evolut

The answer is not sending them to a unaccredited strip center mall charter school like some people want. Or a bible thumping parochial that doesn’t teach evolution.

MisterMower 4y ago
So we should keep them in failing schools?
- dc-programmer 4y ago
  If the school is truly rotten sure maybe let’s close it. But the problem isn’t the schools. Probably the best thing we could do to produce better educational results is to correct the damage done to city centers by rapid deindustrialization and the war on drugs, and invest in rural communities left behind with infrastructure like broadband. Obviously I don’t think either will happen. But just shifting kids around isn’t going to do anything (but there is money to made in sectors like edtech)
  - MisterMower 4y ago
    So we should close failing schools, but schools aren't the problem? Just trying to make sense of your argument.
    - dc-programmer 4y ago
      The argument is the general problem is the negative synergistic feedback loop of poverty, over-policing, drugs, and local culture. These are the problems to solve. I don’t say never so I suppose a school could fail for endogenous reasons in which case action is needed. But there are less drastic actions than shutting it down, such as firing all the admins.
      - MisterMower 4y ago
        Shutting a school down would be easier than firing the admins. Would you consider the possibility that the negative synergistic feedback loop you describe is actually caused by failing schools, instead of the other way around?
jimmygrapes 4y ago
Gentle reminder to steel man, not straw man, but whatever. You brought up a point I am curious about, since my own formal education was severely lacking in many many ways. Is the teaching of evolution really such a big deal? I was never taught creationism, nor evolution, nor anything even remotely touching those subjects. In High School, I was barely taught what a variable was; my math education capped out at rote solving of quadratic equations. I learned the atomic model. of the day, and memorized a quarter of the periodic table. I learned that Shakespeare existed and that sentences in English usually have an object and a subject. I learned that a blood cell contains a lot of little things that I can't do shit about. I was top 1% of my class.
- dc-programmer 4y ago
  The argument would be that serious science educators would not stay long in a position where the curriculum is censured to that degree. Sure there are probably counter examples. But why risk hamstringing the development of future generations like this? Especially as the world gets more competitive. Other countries who take education seriously will have an advantage
  - jimmygrapes 4y ago
    Well on that I absolutely agree. Education all around needs to be better, and by better I mean more thorough, both in breadth and depth. I just don't think every human born is interested enough for that to work in the way the predominant one-size-fits-all public schooling pedagogy of today demands. If we must go to a core set of things that should be taught to all, I can't see much reason why the trivium and quadrivium have been so thoroughly abandoned, yet my niece knows exactly what gender she wants to be when she turns 7. And FWIW I'm sorry for bringing that last part up, and no I'm not joking or trolling.

The answer is not sending them to a unaccredited strip center mall charter school like some people want. Or a bible thumping parochial that doesn’t teach evolution.

MisterMower 4y ago

So we should keep them in failing schools?

dc-programmer 4y ago
If the school is truly rotten sure maybe let’s close it. But the problem isn’t the schools. Probably the best thing we could do to produce better educational results is to correct the damage done to city centers by rapid deindustrialization and the war on drugs, and invest in rural communities left behind with infrastructure like broadband. Obviously I don’t think either will happen. But just shifting kids around isn’t going to do anything (but there is money to made in sectors like edtech)
- MisterMower 4y ago
  So we should close failing schools, but schools aren't the problem? Just trying to make sense of your argument.
  - dc-programmer 4y ago
    The argument is the general problem is the negative synergistic feedback loop of poverty, over-policing, drugs, and local culture. These are the problems to solve. I don’t say never so I suppose a school could fail for endogenous reasons in which case action is needed. But there are less drastic actions than shutting it down, such as firing all the admins.
    - MisterMower 4y ago
      Shutting a school down would be easier than firing the admins. Would you consider the possibility that the negative synergistic feedback loop you describe is actually caused by failing schools, instead of the other way around?

jimmygrapes 4y ago

Gentle reminder to steel man, not straw man, but whatever. You brought up a point I am curious about, since my own formal education was severely lacking in many many ways. Is the teaching of evolution really such a big deal? I was never taught creationism, nor evolution, nor anything even remotely touching those subjects. In High School, I was barely taught what a variable was; my math education capped out at rote solving of quadratic equations. I learned the atomic model. of the day, and memorized a quarter of the periodic table. I learned that Shakespeare existed and that sentences in English usually have an object and a subject. I learned that a blood cell contains a lot of little things that I can't do shit about. I was top 1% of my class.

dc-programmer 4y ago
The argument would be that serious science educators would not stay long in a position where the curriculum is censured to that degree. Sure there are probably counter examples. But why risk hamstringing the development of future generations like this? Especially as the world gets more competitive. Other countries who take education seriously will have an advantage
- jimmygrapes 4y ago
  Well on that I absolutely agree. Education all around needs to be better, and by better I mean more thorough, both in breadth and depth. I just don't think every human born is interested enough for that to work in the way the predominant one-size-fits-all public schooling pedagogy of today demands. If we must go to a core set of things that should be taught to all, I can't see much reason why the trivium and quadrivium have been so thoroughly abandoned, yet my niece knows exactly what gender she wants to be when she turns 7. And FWIW I'm sorry for bringing that last part up, and no I'm not joking or trolling.