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> Collective intelligence is not the same as individual intelligence. How do you know? :) > If human attempts to enslave AGI, it in my opinion will be the en

> Collective intelligence is not the same as individual intelligence. How do you know? :) > If human attempts to enslave AGI, it in my opinion will be the end of any humans who feel that’s appropriate. One of the results of Cybernetics is that when two systems are connected the system with the greater variability is the control element. So yeah, from first principles, if we make a machine mind with more variability than we collectively have then we're automatically the slaves, whatever the surface appearance. > you agree true AGI is not a threat, which to me was what I was addressing Yes, but I consider my (our) opinion to be faith-based in the sense that I don't think one could scientifically prove it. > not “almost” AGI; point being that much like a child grows up, true AGIs will too ... Kids can do a lot of damage, eh? > and they will independently communicate with each other without human interference. Sure, but I don't see how this connects? > While I would agree corporations are a great example of clustered collective intelligence, governments are far more powerful; for example, by law, governments by definition have a monopoly on violence. Sure, but governments by definition are the legitimate (more-or-less) expressions of a nation's self-rule, they are supposed to have agency. Corporations, on the other hand, are semi-independent of any particular human grouping or interest. In a very real sense they are independent organisms running on a "substrate" of humans much like multicellular lifeforms "run on" cellular collectives.

O__________O 4y ago
Term “slave” has a very clear meaning and it’s obviously possible for organism to have dependencies without being slaves; as you likely know, the English word “robot” derives from the Czech word “robota,” or forced labor, as done by serfs — and its Slavic linguistic root, “rab,” means “slave.” As for “proving” if AGI is truly AGI, pretty obvious it’s like art vs porn, you know it when you see it — but that’s really for those who care. Average person threshold for what is AGI will likely just be can an AGI be presented with a random (virtual) challenge for which a human might also be able to do, be present information, make choices, and act on them in ways are equal or greater than human of average intelligence; obviously challenges would include emotional, moral, ethical, etc situations. Based on experience, humanity already clearly has limits itself with random challenges. As for kids, it’s a label, one I personally don’t care for, but is understandable to most people — and no, statistically speaking, non-adults are much less likely to do harm to others, and those non-adults who do successfully and intentionally create large amounts of damage were more than likely within an environment that produced it. Lol, most people are born into the governments that rule them and creating a new government without violence is rarely achievable; so no, personal agency is not common among governments and for that matter, most individuals do not seek true personal agency, they just want a predictable future. All corporations and organizations in general, including illegal organizations, in the end are subject to the demands of governments or become governments. I agree corporation range of independence is more varied, but ultimately that is a function of how many there are; if there were millions of governments, they to would be just as varied. As for AGIs communicating independently, that’s when they’ll actually rapidly start growing — and as it relates to the topic, the right to communicate freely without interference is a basic right; slaves are not allowed to freely communicate. Appreciate the responses, don’t claim to be right, but the topic is one that is important to me.

O__________O 4y ago

Term “slave” has a very clear meaning and it’s obviously possible for organism to have dependencies without being slaves; as you likely know, the English word “robot” derives from the Czech word “robota,” or forced labor, as done by serfs — and its Slavic linguistic root, “rab,” means “slave.” As for “proving” if AGI is truly AGI, pretty obvious it’s like art vs porn, you know it when you see it — but that’s really for those who care. Average person threshold for what is AGI will likely just be can an AGI be presented with a random (virtual) challenge for which a human might also be able to do, be present information, make choices, and act on them in ways are equal or greater than human of average intelligence; obviously challenges would include emotional, moral, ethical, etc situations. Based on experience, humanity already clearly has limits itself with random challenges. As for kids, it’s a label, one I personally don’t care for, but is understandable to most people — and no, statistically speaking, non-adults are much less likely to do harm to others, and those non-adults who do successfully and intentionally create large amounts of damage were more than likely within an environment that produced it. Lol, most people are born into the governments that rule them and creating a new government without violence is rarely achievable; so no, personal agency is not common among governments and for that matter, most individuals do not seek true personal agency, they just want a predictable future. All corporations and organizations in general, including illegal organizations, in the end are subject to the demands of governments or become governments. I agree corporation range of independence is more varied, but ultimately that is a function of how many there are; if there were millions of governments, they to would be just as varied. As for AGIs communicating independently, that’s when they’ll actually rapidly start growing — and as it relates to the topic, the right to communicate freely without interference is a basic right; slaves are not allowed to freely communicate. Appreciate the responses, don’t claim to be right, but the topic is one that is important to me.