4 ms·

> However, the numbers may sound more alarming than they really are because honey bees are efficiently bred and managed by humans. Could that be part of the pr

> However, the numbers may sound more alarming than they really are because honey bees are efficiently bred and managed by humans. Could that be part of the problem, they mention diversity loss in habitat, how about diversity of honeybee genetics. At the same time, HoneyBees are basically barnyard animals, we don't monitor the collapse of pig populations as they head to the slaughterhouse. I understand its not quite an apt analogy because that is the known causative agent and nobody is trying to slaughter their HoneyBees. All the same, they are not natural, I wonder if the public realizes that.

solardev 4y ago
Honeybees are basically an invasive species that humans brought to the Americas in order to pollinate old-world crops (and also harvest honey). The thing is, we've replaced a lot of native new-world ecosystems and foods with old-world crops that depend on old-world bees. There are a few separate problems that the media often mixes up: One is that our old-world crops aren't getting enough old-world bees to meet their pollination needs. Separately, new-world bees (what the article calls "wild bees") are also being replaced by old-world bees, losing out in competition, and not being cared for by professional beekeepers. They're more vulnerable, less protected, and less monitored. To top it all off, many kinds of bees, old-world or new, are also suffering from the cumulative (and unfortunately complex) domino effects of habitat loss, pesticides, climate change, etc. I think what's happening in the media is that journalists, knowingly or not, are using #2 and #3 to amplify the concern of #1 even though they're not always aligned (e.g., old-world bees are often one of the reasons contributing to the decline of native new-world bees). It's relatively harder to get the public to care about an industrial economics problem (#1, where farmers have to resort to expensive human manual pollination instead of cheap bees), so trying to sell that as environmental crisis a la Silent Spring gets more eyeballs.
- peteradio 4y ago
  To which old-world crops do you refer?
  - solardev 4y ago
    (Not my knowledge, just repeating sources): almonds, some apples, melons, alfafa, plums, avocado, blueberry, cherry, pear, cucumber, sunflower, cranberry, kiwi, etc. Source: PDF page 4: https://www.beyondpesticides.org/assets/media/documents/pollinators/documents/ValueofHoneyBeesasPollinators-2000Report.pdf https://www.beyondpesticides.org/assets/media/documents/poll... Background, in order from "most readable" to "scholarly": https://www.museumoftheearth.org/bees/agriculture https://www.museumoftheearth.org/bees/agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.262413599 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.262413599 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8396518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8396518/
    - tacocataco 4y ago
      Corn beans and squash? https://www.reneesgarden.com/blogs/gardening-resources/celebrate-the-three-sisters-corn-beans-and-squash https://www.reneesgarden.com/blogs/gardening-resources/celeb...
    - bregma 4y ago
      Blueberries, sunflowers, and cranberries are all native to North America. The things Europeans sometimes call "blueberries" (bilberries) are an entirely different species.
      - solardev 4y ago
        Yes, the old world bees sometimes do pollinate the native crops too, and vice versa. It's not a completely separate Venn diagram. The studies discuss and analyze the degrees of crossover.
h2odragon 4y ago
Remember "Killer Bees"? People killed a lot of wild honeybee hives from fear they'd hybridize and introduce new genes into the domestic population. There's a few people who will talk about the lack of diversity in domestic bee genetics. AFAIK they're not popular, everybody wants to blame anyone but regulators.

solardev 4y ago

Honeybees are basically an invasive species that humans brought to the Americas in order to pollinate old-world crops (and also harvest honey). The thing is, we've replaced a lot of native new-world ecosystems and foods with old-world crops that depend on old-world bees. There are a few separate problems that the media often mixes up: One is that our old-world crops aren't getting enough old-world bees to meet their pollination needs. Separately, new-world bees (what the article calls "wild bees") are also being replaced by old-world bees, losing out in competition, and not being cared for by professional beekeepers. They're more vulnerable, less protected, and less monitored. To top it all off, many kinds of bees, old-world or new, are also suffering from the cumulative (and unfortunately complex) domino effects of habitat loss, pesticides, climate change, etc. I think what's happening in the media is that journalists, knowingly or not, are using #2 and #3 to amplify the concern of #1 even though they're not always aligned (e.g., old-world bees are often one of the reasons contributing to the decline of native new-world bees). It's relatively harder to get the public to care about an industrial economics problem (#1, where farmers have to resort to expensive human manual pollination instead of cheap bees), so trying to sell that as environmental crisis a la Silent Spring gets more eyeballs.

peteradio 4y ago
To which old-world crops do you refer?
- solardev 4y ago
  (Not my knowledge, just repeating sources): almonds, some apples, melons, alfafa, plums, avocado, blueberry, cherry, pear, cucumber, sunflower, cranberry, kiwi, etc. Source: PDF page 4: https://www.beyondpesticides.org/assets/media/documents/pollinators/documents/ValueofHoneyBeesasPollinators-2000Report.pdf https://www.beyondpesticides.org/assets/media/documents/poll... Background, in order from "most readable" to "scholarly": https://www.museumoftheearth.org/bees/agriculture https://www.museumoftheearth.org/bees/agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.262413599 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.262413599 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8396518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8396518/
  - tacocataco 4y ago
    Corn beans and squash? https://www.reneesgarden.com/blogs/gardening-resources/celebrate-the-three-sisters-corn-beans-and-squash https://www.reneesgarden.com/blogs/gardening-resources/celeb...
  - bregma 4y ago
    Blueberries, sunflowers, and cranberries are all native to North America. The things Europeans sometimes call "blueberries" (bilberries) are an entirely different species.
    - solardev 4y ago
      Yes, the old world bees sometimes do pollinate the native crops too, and vice versa. It's not a completely separate Venn diagram. The studies discuss and analyze the degrees of crossover.

h2odragon 4y ago

Remember "Killer Bees"? People killed a lot of wild honeybee hives from fear they'd hybridize and introduce new genes into the domestic population. There's a few people who will talk about the lack of diversity in domestic bee genetics. AFAIK they're not popular, everybody wants to blame anyone but regulators.