5 ms·

I don't think they're incompetent. I think they're operating under the assumption that GNOME is going to be popular. The majority of people primarily or exclusi

by mrob 4y ago

I don't think they're incompetent. I think they're operating under the assumption that GNOME is going to be popular. The majority of people primarily or exclusively use mobile touchscreen UIs, so mainstream popularity requires that everything be dumbed down to suit touchscreens. In reality, this will most likely just drive away the users who prefer more powerful UIs without giving the mobile users any compelling reason to switch. But this isn't even necessarily a sign of delusion or incompetence. It's plausible that the GNOME devs know it's a bad idea, but they have to do it anyway, because without the possibility of mainstream popularity there's no good reason for IBM to continue funding it.

tokai 4y ago
If its made for mainstream popularity, then why has it become the most common default DE among distro when linux is still not mainstream? Even use for poweruser distros.
- ginko 4y ago
  >If its made for mainstream popularity, then why has it become the most common default DE among distro when linux is still not mainstream It's pushed by Red Hat who has disproportionate control over the development of Linux. Same reason everyone had to switch to systemd.
  - uluyol 4y ago
    Disproportionate in what sense? In terms of funding? Users? Red Hat has some of the most popular distributions and backs more open source devs than anyone else.
Certhas 4y ago
But it's not really touch focused the way I use it. It's more text focused. I never start a program by touching/clicking, I hit Super and type the name. Same for settings. I absolutely need the Ubuntu modifications to it. I really think they removed too much, but the basic design and workflow of "Hit Super to get to the organisation view" is excellent IMO.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  While hitting Super is great they also for some bizarre reason make it ONLY work with left Super. This is fine for laptops which only have a left Super typically but it's really weird on desktop keyboards which typically have two. By default my Kinesis Advantage only has a right Super key so when I first started using GNOME after a long while I thought it was another random thing they removed for no reason. Nope, just doesn't work with right Super keys for some reason. Fortunately I can remap my right Super key to a left super key but I really don't feel like I should have to and not all desktop boards can remap it in the first place.
  - Certhas 4y ago
    Ouch, I didn't know that... Yeah I really think they shot themself in the foot with making the happy path too narrow. Almost everyone will hit some minor usability thing like that and that has contributed to the negative impression. And there are just not enough power user options in the settings, even with Gnome Tweak tools.
a-dub 4y ago
you can build a separate mobile optimized ui, and a separate desktop optimized ui, that both share a design language and conceptual approach, without using the exact same ui for both use cases. it seems that ui designers have been trying to combine these interfaces for over a decade, i'm convinced it's a fools errand and that all it produces are things that make too many compromises for anyone to truly be happy. everyone keeps trying it, yet apple stays far away, the fact that they are ui forward and won't go near it should say something.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  Does MacOS support all the little tricks here that the article mentions Gnome is missing? Apparently they only support middle-button pasting within the terminal. And I seriously doubt they support the "scroll on title bar" trick. So if we are to take Apple's UX decisions as an example to follow, then it would seem like Gnome was correct in ditching these small tricks.
- addicted 4y ago
  And you simply increase the work for 3rd party developers to create multiple apps for multiple platforms. Apple can achieve this because they’ve made extremely profitable ecosystems on both the desktop and mobile (although both appear to be heading towards a race to the bottom). Linux has no such luxury. The vast majority of apps on Linux would simply never work on Mobile because no one would bother creating a mobile app for Linux, because of the chicken and egg problem created by the non existent market share for Linux phones.
  - a-dub 4y ago
    > The vast majority of apps on Linux would simply never work on Mobile because no one would bother creating a mobile app for Linux, because of the chicken and egg problem created by the non existent market share for Linux phones. they would never work on mobile because they are fundamentally different computing paradigms with very different use cases. breaking the desktop is not going to fix the situation on mobile.
cardiffspaceman 4y ago
It remains to be demonstrated that the industry knows that much about touch screen UI's. For example, "mobile" Safari requires me to touch the links on this website with my fingertip. I routinely have trouble on this site getting to the discussion when I want to or getting to the discussed site when I want to because those links are close together and Safari doesn't try to improve that situation. If the industry clearly did know how to render a website in the normal way and at the same time afford accurate link visiting with touch input, I would have more faith that vectoring GNOME the way it has been vectored was going to be successful.
- Jcowell 4y ago
  This is an issue of HackerNews , not Safari or any browser. It’s not a website made for mobile in mind. It’s like being mad that a motorcycle can’t fit all the items a car can. It was not made with that use case.
  - cardiffspaceman 4y ago
    I guess when I have a spare moment with only my phone available, I am wrong to visit Hacker News?
    - sofixa 4y ago
      No, HackerNews devs are "wrong" in ignoring mobile users, which are probably a non-insignificant amount.
- 10000truths 4y ago
  > For example, "mobile" Safari requires me to touch the links on this website with my fingertip. I routinely have trouble on this site getting to the discussion when I want to or getting to the discussed site when I want to because those links are close together and Safari doesn't try to improve that situation. Is this not what pinch-and-zoom is for?
  - cardiffspaceman 4y ago
akagusu 4y ago
People complain about Gnome devs removing features they don't like or don't use since at least Gnome 2, long before Gnome 3 and its mobile-like interface. So it is not about people using mobile touch screens or even about popularity.

by mrob 4y ago

tokai 4y ago

If its made for mainstream popularity, then why has it become the most common default DE among distro when linux is still not mainstream? Even use for poweruser distros.

ginko 4y ago
>If its made for mainstream popularity, then why has it become the most common default DE among distro when linux is still not mainstream It's pushed by Red Hat who has disproportionate control over the development of Linux. Same reason everyone had to switch to systemd.
- uluyol 4y ago
  Disproportionate in what sense? In terms of funding? Users? Red Hat has some of the most popular distributions and backs more open source devs than anyone else.

Certhas 4y ago

But it's not really touch focused the way I use it. It's more text focused. I never start a program by touching/clicking, I hit Super and type the name. Same for settings. I absolutely need the Ubuntu modifications to it. I really think they removed too much, but the basic design and workflow of "Hit Super to get to the organisation view" is excellent IMO.

goosedragons 4y ago
While hitting Super is great they also for some bizarre reason make it ONLY work with left Super. This is fine for laptops which only have a left Super typically but it's really weird on desktop keyboards which typically have two. By default my Kinesis Advantage only has a right Super key so when I first started using GNOME after a long while I thought it was another random thing they removed for no reason. Nope, just doesn't work with right Super keys for some reason. Fortunately I can remap my right Super key to a left super key but I really don't feel like I should have to and not all desktop boards can remap it in the first place.
- Certhas 4y ago
  Ouch, I didn't know that... Yeah I really think they shot themself in the foot with making the happy path too narrow. Almost everyone will hit some minor usability thing like that and that has contributed to the negative impression. And there are just not enough power user options in the settings, even with Gnome Tweak tools.

a-dub 4y ago

you can build a separate mobile optimized ui, and a separate desktop optimized ui, that both share a design language and conceptual approach, without using the exact same ui for both use cases. it seems that ui designers have been trying to combine these interfaces for over a decade, i'm convinced it's a fools errand and that all it produces are things that make too many compromises for anyone to truly be happy. everyone keeps trying it, yet apple stays far away, the fact that they are ui forward and won't go near it should say something.

woojoo666 4y ago
Does MacOS support all the little tricks here that the article mentions Gnome is missing? Apparently they only support middle-button pasting within the terminal. And I seriously doubt they support the "scroll on title bar" trick. So if we are to take Apple's UX decisions as an example to follow, then it would seem like Gnome was correct in ditching these small tricks.
addicted 4y ago
And you simply increase the work for 3rd party developers to create multiple apps for multiple platforms. Apple can achieve this because they’ve made extremely profitable ecosystems on both the desktop and mobile (although both appear to be heading towards a race to the bottom). Linux has no such luxury. The vast majority of apps on Linux would simply never work on Mobile because no one would bother creating a mobile app for Linux, because of the chicken and egg problem created by the non existent market share for Linux phones.
- a-dub 4y ago
  > The vast majority of apps on Linux would simply never work on Mobile because no one would bother creating a mobile app for Linux, because of the chicken and egg problem created by the non existent market share for Linux phones. they would never work on mobile because they are fundamentally different computing paradigms with very different use cases. breaking the desktop is not going to fix the situation on mobile.

cardiffspaceman 4y ago

It remains to be demonstrated that the industry knows that much about touch screen UI's. For example, "mobile" Safari requires me to touch the links on this website with my fingertip. I routinely have trouble on this site getting to the discussion when I want to or getting to the discussed site when I want to because those links are close together and Safari doesn't try to improve that situation. If the industry clearly did know how to render a website in the normal way and at the same time afford accurate link visiting with touch input, I would have more faith that vectoring GNOME the way it has been vectored was going to be successful.

Jcowell 4y ago
This is an issue of HackerNews , not Safari or any browser. It’s not a website made for mobile in mind. It’s like being mad that a motorcycle can’t fit all the items a car can. It was not made with that use case.
- cardiffspaceman 4y ago
  I guess when I have a spare moment with only my phone available, I am wrong to visit Hacker News?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    No, HackerNews devs are "wrong" in ignoring mobile users, which are probably a non-insignificant amount.
10000truths 4y ago
> For example, "mobile" Safari requires me to touch the links on this website with my fingertip. I routinely have trouble on this site getting to the discussion when I want to or getting to the discussed site when I want to because those links are close together and Safari doesn't try to improve that situation. Is this not what pinch-and-zoom is for?
- cardiffspaceman 4y ago

akagusu 4y ago

People complain about Gnome devs removing features they don't like or don't use since at least Gnome 2, long before Gnome 3 and its mobile-like interface. So it is not about people using mobile touch screens or even about popularity.