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> Work experience can convey that same level of knowledge What kind of work experience would give you the breadth and depth of knowledge of someone with a degr

> Work experience can convey that same level of knowledge What kind of work experience would give you the breadth and depth of knowledge of someone with a degree in maths or physics? Having a career in software development does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of any academic field.

phpisthebest 4y ago
Having a career in software development, does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of software development degree, really?
- MaxBarraclough 4y ago
  A software engineering degree is an academic degree, not a vocational certificate. Look at this syllabus for a 4-year degree in software engineering. [0] It's broadly similar to what we'd expect of a computer science degree. Topics include: • Computer architecture • Compilers • Computer graphics • Cryptography • Deep learning • Software verification The average self-taught web developer has a working knowledge of none of these fields. [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-department/meng-computing-software-engineering-/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-depart...
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    First I never said anything about web development... That said then there is a clear disconnect between employment, and degree's Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development That is the the point of my comment, often time people feel required to spend 10's or 100's of thousands on a degree for the sole purpose of attaining employment as a software developer. If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam
    - MaxBarraclough 4y ago
      > I never said anything about web development You said software development. Self-taught software developers are very often web developers. > Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development Suppose you're right that employers place undue emphasis on academic achievement compared to on-the-job software development experience. This would not be addressed by handing out honorary degrees wholesale. > If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam If it lets them start a software development career, it's not a waste. Also, again, a degree in computer science is not a vocational course like a coding boot camp, it's an academic qualification. The goal is to impart a basic knowledge of a scientific field. In my experience software engineering degrees tend to be essentially computer science degrees but with a slightly different emphasis. Of course, both are more applicable to software development than, say, a degree in biology. Some degrees have limited non-academic application, such as philosophy, and some have non-academic application but with only very few jobs available, such as forensics. If I recall correctly, computer science and software engineering are among the top degree topics measured by average financial payoff.
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        Well there needs to be some kind of sea change, and my comment was just proposing some kind of workable solution to what I see in the employment market where employers have degree requirements. most people are entering university for vocational reasons, not academic achievement. The vast majority of students are students for the sole purpose of career placement, no other reason. The push by universities to extract as much (often tax payer funded) money pushing academic achievement, while ignoring the societal goal / desire of vocational education seems to if not the core, pretty close to the core of the problem we face with on this topic. The idea of experience based degree's would start the shift that IMO is needed back to vocational studies and away from academic achievement
        MaxBarraclough 4y ago
- giaour 4y ago
  Certainly not in any standardized way. The variance between what someone does in one software development job vs another is just too high to be a good signal of any particular knowledge.

phpisthebest 4y ago

Having a career in software development, does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of software development degree, really?

MaxBarraclough 4y ago
A software engineering degree is an academic degree, not a vocational certificate. Look at this syllabus for a 4-year degree in software engineering. [0] It's broadly similar to what we'd expect of a computer science degree. Topics include: • Computer architecture • Compilers • Computer graphics • Cryptography • Deep learning • Software verification The average self-taught web developer has a working knowledge of none of these fields. [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-department/meng-computing-software-engineering-/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-depart...
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  First I never said anything about web development... That said then there is a clear disconnect between employment, and degree's Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development That is the the point of my comment, often time people feel required to spend 10's or 100's of thousands on a degree for the sole purpose of attaining employment as a software developer. If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam
  - MaxBarraclough 4y ago
    > I never said anything about web development You said software development. Self-taught software developers are very often web developers. > Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development Suppose you're right that employers place undue emphasis on academic achievement compared to on-the-job software development experience. This would not be addressed by handing out honorary degrees wholesale. > If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam If it lets them start a software development career, it's not a waste. Also, again, a degree in computer science is not a vocational course like a coding boot camp, it's an academic qualification. The goal is to impart a basic knowledge of a scientific field. In my experience software engineering degrees tend to be essentially computer science degrees but with a slightly different emphasis. Of course, both are more applicable to software development than, say, a degree in biology. Some degrees have limited non-academic application, such as philosophy, and some have non-academic application but with only very few jobs available, such as forensics. If I recall correctly, computer science and software engineering are among the top degree topics measured by average financial payoff.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      Well there needs to be some kind of sea change, and my comment was just proposing some kind of workable solution to what I see in the employment market where employers have degree requirements. most people are entering university for vocational reasons, not academic achievement. The vast majority of students are students for the sole purpose of career placement, no other reason. The push by universities to extract as much (often tax payer funded) money pushing academic achievement, while ignoring the societal goal / desire of vocational education seems to if not the core, pretty close to the core of the problem we face with on this topic. The idea of experience based degree's would start the shift that IMO is needed back to vocational studies and away from academic achievement
      - MaxBarraclough 4y ago
giaour 4y ago
Certainly not in any standardized way. The variance between what someone does in one software development job vs another is just too high to be a good signal of any particular knowledge.