4 ms·

What would be the actual value of a 'degree' here as opposed to just the work experience? This sounds as much a reason to just ignore the idea of degrees as bei

What would be the actual value of a 'degree' here as opposed to just the work experience? This sounds as much a reason to just ignore the idea of degrees as being uniquely meaningful which is...probably fine. But, degrees and work experience are not (or should not) be the same thing.

phpisthebest 4y ago
Why? The stated purpose of a degree is to educate a person in field of study, the culmination of which is a piece of paper that is suppose to signify to society that you have attained a set level of knowledge in a field of study. Work experience can convey that same level of knowledge, thus the purpose of an experience based degree would be to signify to society that you have attained a set level of knowledge in a field of study.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Work experience can be difficult to evaluate, especially since most companies have no incentive to cooperate with the degree granting institution. In addition to the process consuming company resources, there may be sensitive business knowledge they don't want revealed. There's also the issue of turnover making knowledge of an employee's experience with the company very limited. Same for human memory decay or simply others in the company not knowing what the person was doing, even if it was valuable.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    While I can agree with that, I fail to see how this does not also apply to collegiate based education. Having interviewed several recent graduates the level of knowledge shown is not on par with what I would expect, it seems from my personal experience that college is more of an attendance standard than educational standards, what years ago we would call diploma mills, pay the fee, attend the class, get the degree, seems to the wider state of the "higher" education system today
    - bigDinosaur 4y ago
      This to me simply means we're failing with educational standards. Which, well, we probably are. At the same time, it's not as if professional development is a given with 'years of experience' and companies frequently fail to develop people in any meaningful sense. There's merit to the idea of awarding a college degree if you can pass all the assessment, without necessarily taking the classes, but that's a different thing again. Ideally, college should be about introducing theory and reasoning which gives a solid understanding of the field in a highly focused manner that an employer almost certainly won't provide. I certainly know people who consider their college experiences extremely rigorous - electrical engineers and so on, so it's absolutely not the case that college can't be rigorous (for any field).
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        Another comment in this thread seems to have hit on one of the problems, Universities are focused not on vocational education, which is the reason most people attend university , and what most employers expect when they demand a degree from their employee's. Instead universities are focused on "academic qualification" which may have limited to no real world vocational value . >At the same time, it's not as if professional development is a given with 'years of experience' and companies frequently fail to develop people in any meaningful sense. I 100% agree with this, I know a few "experienced" people that are not really experienced, which is why I did not simply state that one should automatically attain this experienced based degree simply on chronological paid experience but rather experience + something else Someone bought up WGU's method of crediting some life experience, that is a good start but I don't think WGU's program goes far enough but it is on the right path, and I which more institutions would start doing more things like them. >I certainly know people who consider their college experiences extremely rigorous - electrical engineers and so on, so it's absolutely not the case that college can't be rigorous (for any field). Again I agree here, some fields may lend themselves to an actual degree program, Doctors for example. I think my ideal society would be less than 30% of jobs requiring a post secondary education degree, the vast majority of employment should be encompassed by regular primary / secondary (k-12) education, and maybe direct vocational training (paid by employers) Instead we pushed the narrative the most jobs need post secondary education or to be successful one must get a degree. Allowing for experienced based degree's , IMO would start to open other avenues and maybe start a shift in human resources to start looking at other things that just a check mark for "has degree" true or false Of course the extreme cost of education, and the debt crisis is also doing that slowly
- MaxBarraclough 4y ago
  > Work experience can convey that same level of knowledge What kind of work experience would give you the breadth and depth of knowledge of someone with a degree in maths or physics? Having a career in software development does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of any academic field.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Having a career in software development, does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of software development degree, really?
    - MaxBarraclough 4y ago
      A software engineering degree is an academic degree, not a vocational certificate. Look at this syllabus for a 4-year degree in software engineering. [0] It's broadly similar to what we'd expect of a computer science degree. Topics include: • Computer architecture • Compilers • Computer graphics • Cryptography • Deep learning • Software verification The average self-taught web developer has a working knowledge of none of these fields. [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-department/meng-computing-software-engineering-/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-depart...
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        First I never said anything about web development... That said then there is a clear disconnect between employment, and degree's Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development That is the the point of my comment, often time people feel required to spend 10's or 100's of thousands on a degree for the sole purpose of attaining employment as a software developer. If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam
        MaxBarraclough 4y ago

phpisthebest 4y ago

Why? The stated purpose of a degree is to educate a person in field of study, the culmination of which is a piece of paper that is suppose to signify to society that you have attained a set level of knowledge in a field of study. Work experience can convey that same level of knowledge, thus the purpose of an experience based degree would be to signify to society that you have attained a set level of knowledge in a field of study.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Work experience can be difficult to evaluate, especially since most companies have no incentive to cooperate with the degree granting institution. In addition to the process consuming company resources, there may be sensitive business knowledge they don't want revealed. There's also the issue of turnover making knowledge of an employee's experience with the company very limited. Same for human memory decay or simply others in the company not knowing what the person was doing, even if it was valuable.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  While I can agree with that, I fail to see how this does not also apply to collegiate based education. Having interviewed several recent graduates the level of knowledge shown is not on par with what I would expect, it seems from my personal experience that college is more of an attendance standard than educational standards, what years ago we would call diploma mills, pay the fee, attend the class, get the degree, seems to the wider state of the "higher" education system today
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    This to me simply means we're failing with educational standards. Which, well, we probably are. At the same time, it's not as if professional development is a given with 'years of experience' and companies frequently fail to develop people in any meaningful sense. There's merit to the idea of awarding a college degree if you can pass all the assessment, without necessarily taking the classes, but that's a different thing again. Ideally, college should be about introducing theory and reasoning which gives a solid understanding of the field in a highly focused manner that an employer almost certainly won't provide. I certainly know people who consider their college experiences extremely rigorous - electrical engineers and so on, so it's absolutely not the case that college can't be rigorous (for any field).
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      Another comment in this thread seems to have hit on one of the problems, Universities are focused not on vocational education, which is the reason most people attend university , and what most employers expect when they demand a degree from their employee's. Instead universities are focused on "academic qualification" which may have limited to no real world vocational value . >At the same time, it's not as if professional development is a given with 'years of experience' and companies frequently fail to develop people in any meaningful sense. I 100% agree with this, I know a few "experienced" people that are not really experienced, which is why I did not simply state that one should automatically attain this experienced based degree simply on chronological paid experience but rather experience + something else Someone bought up WGU's method of crediting some life experience, that is a good start but I don't think WGU's program goes far enough but it is on the right path, and I which more institutions would start doing more things like them. >I certainly know people who consider their college experiences extremely rigorous - electrical engineers and so on, so it's absolutely not the case that college can't be rigorous (for any field). Again I agree here, some fields may lend themselves to an actual degree program, Doctors for example. I think my ideal society would be less than 30% of jobs requiring a post secondary education degree, the vast majority of employment should be encompassed by regular primary / secondary (k-12) education, and maybe direct vocational training (paid by employers) Instead we pushed the narrative the most jobs need post secondary education or to be successful one must get a degree. Allowing for experienced based degree's , IMO would start to open other avenues and maybe start a shift in human resources to start looking at other things that just a check mark for "has degree" true or false Of course the extreme cost of education, and the debt crisis is also doing that slowly
MaxBarraclough 4y ago
> Work experience can convey that same level of knowledge What kind of work experience would give you the breadth and depth of knowledge of someone with a degree in maths or physics? Having a career in software development does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of any academic field.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Having a career in software development, does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of software development degree, really?
  - MaxBarraclough 4y ago
    A software engineering degree is an academic degree, not a vocational certificate. Look at this syllabus for a 4-year degree in software engineering. [0] It's broadly similar to what we'd expect of a computer science degree. Topics include: • Computer architecture • Compilers • Computer graphics • Cryptography • Deep learning • Software verification The average self-taught web developer has a working knowledge of none of these fields. [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-department/meng-computing-software-engineering-/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-depart...
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      First I never said anything about web development... That said then there is a clear disconnect between employment, and degree's Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development That is the the point of my comment, often time people feel required to spend 10's or 100's of thousands on a degree for the sole purpose of attaining employment as a software developer. If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam
      - MaxBarraclough 4y ago