4 ms·

This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compellin

by least 4y ago

This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I personally don't think Microsoft quite got it right with using Windows on a tablet, though it was certainly a lot better with Windows 8, which is what the surface pro 2 (I think the first one as well?) shipped with. There's way too many compromises on usability because it's running Windows, and there's no meaningful impetus for developers to create their applications specifically with touch in mind. Apple's been much more antagonistic to developers yet they still get people making apps specifically for iPadOS in a way that neither Google nor Microsoft have managed. I think this is the advantage to their totalitarian strategy; they get less applications built for iOS/iPadOS overall and their restrictions make it significantly harder or impossible to create some things you can find easily on Windows, Android, or even MacOS, but because they control the platform they can impose minimum requirements for applications on the platform and as a result you actually get programs that run with that device's UX paradigms in mind. It probably also helps that their platform makes more money and that the iPad is already in a position of dominance in this market, but I digress. If Microsoft wants to fully realize their Surface tablet vision, they need to pump a ton of money into getting developers on board and building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets.

sseagull 4y ago
I bought a Surface 7+ a few months ago and really like it. I think of it as a “laptop replacement”. My serious work is done on a desktop with 3 large monitors at home, and a laptop with two large monitors at work. So I only needed a small-ish laptop to handle the in-between. Plus I can read books or watch videos, take notes, etc, in tablet mode. > building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets I kinda don’t want this. A major selling point was that I have a full OS with the same applications on my desktop and laptop (ie, PyCharm, other python-related stuff, Firefox, custom python, bash, powershell scripts). No need to have completely different apps because the tablet maker hobbles the OS, making using a tablet in laptop mode useless. It can be awkward for sure in tablet mode, but it does kinda work.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  This is also my finding - I need regular apps even while reading books or watch videos. Windows 10 in non tablet mode is totally great for that. I use winget/chocolatey to install stuff I use on work and home and no need for different OS/apps. I can run anything work related on Surface - I have docker installed, Visual Studio, Sql Server, PostgreSql, nodejs, dotnet etc - I rarely use them but its good to know everything just works if I needed it. Most of the time I use it for reading HN and friends, watch some videos/podcasts, read ebooks. Besides that, I have it with me on each meeting. I save any work in git repository so having all that working the same as on my Desktop computer is a big win. Regarding that use case, the only thing I don't like about Surface 7 Pro is its screen which is very much reflective. Other then that, its totally awesome.
- least 4y ago
  I think the Surface line serves the "I only want one portable device" crowd well enough, even though I think it could be better. Applications being able to adapt based on the way you're interfacing with them would be the most work required from developers but also probably the best of both worlds... just that'd require Microsoft investing in 3rd party developer support in a way they haven't before. I personally use both a laptop and an iPad regularly enough in their own contexts that I find it worthwhile to have both.
rollcat 4y ago
> This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I've switched to an Ergodox in early 2019 and I couldn't use a laptop since. MNT[1] is the only laptop manufacturer I know of, that is even trying to do anything about the absurdity of emulating 19th century typewriters; although the Planck-style ortholinear layout is not my type. At one point I've been considering a tablet + a small foldable camera tripod + Corne-ish Zen[2] or similar; and a custom carrying case to fit all of these neatly. The tripod could also be useful for actual photography, and would put the screen at a reasonable height for actual work. I'm having a difficult time finding decent tablet hardware though. I would ideally like to run OpenBSD on it! [1]: https://mntmn.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt-pocket-reform.html https://mntmn.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/jyht57/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/jyht57/
- rovr138 4y ago
  I've been using a Advantage Pro for over 10 years now and it's great. But I still travel and use my MBP's and now my Surface Pro's keyboard. Besides shortcuts between Windows and Mac, I can type on any of them. Of course, I prefer my Kinesis, but, it's not an issue really switching.
  - least 4y ago
    I don't have trouble typing but I do have trouble trying to type for a long period of time on a standard laptop keyboard because it tends to cause flare ups in my hands, the whole reason I switched to an ergonomic keyboard (in my case a Kinesis Advantage 2). I do wish there was a better option available on keyboards but alas the market is quite niche. Separating the keyboard from the laptop seems to be the only realistic option for people with those needs.
  - rollcat 4y ago
    Well I'm using my Thinkpad X230 now and then (still in my top 3 best laptop keyboards), and my wrists regret it.
idatum 4y ago
Related to the Surface Pro 2, I have Ubuntu 22.04 LTS running on an 8 GiB version (i5-4300 CPU), 256 GB SSD. It's been reasonable for what I use it for, mainly SDR applications, such as CubicSDR and GNU Radio X11 apps, and multiple CLI apps like rtl_433. Audio is good, screen is fine, and WiFi works. It's nice to have a laptop if I want to use an antenna outside. Don't even bother using the tiny trackpad on that model's type cover. Bluetooth works so I use that for an external mouse. Bonus: I never even thought to try the built-in video cam, and after reading the article, I installed VLC and to my surprise the camera worked!

by least 4y ago

sseagull 4y ago

I bought a Surface 7+ a few months ago and really like it. I think of it as a “laptop replacement”. My serious work is done on a desktop with 3 large monitors at home, and a laptop with two large monitors at work. So I only needed a small-ish laptop to handle the in-between. Plus I can read books or watch videos, take notes, etc, in tablet mode. > building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets I kinda don’t want this. A major selling point was that I have a full OS with the same applications on my desktop and laptop (ie, PyCharm, other python-related stuff, Firefox, custom python, bash, powershell scripts). No need to have completely different apps because the tablet maker hobbles the OS, making using a tablet in laptop mode useless. It can be awkward for sure in tablet mode, but it does kinda work.

majkinetor 4y ago
This is also my finding - I need regular apps even while reading books or watch videos. Windows 10 in non tablet mode is totally great for that. I use winget/chocolatey to install stuff I use on work and home and no need for different OS/apps. I can run anything work related on Surface - I have docker installed, Visual Studio, Sql Server, PostgreSql, nodejs, dotnet etc - I rarely use them but its good to know everything just works if I needed it. Most of the time I use it for reading HN and friends, watch some videos/podcasts, read ebooks. Besides that, I have it with me on each meeting. I save any work in git repository so having all that working the same as on my Desktop computer is a big win. Regarding that use case, the only thing I don't like about Surface 7 Pro is its screen which is very much reflective. Other then that, its totally awesome.
least 4y ago
I think the Surface line serves the "I only want one portable device" crowd well enough, even though I think it could be better. Applications being able to adapt based on the way you're interfacing with them would be the most work required from developers but also probably the best of both worlds... just that'd require Microsoft investing in 3rd party developer support in a way they haven't before. I personally use both a laptop and an iPad regularly enough in their own contexts that I find it worthwhile to have both.

rollcat 4y ago

> This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I've switched to an Ergodox in early 2019 and I couldn't use a laptop since. MNT[1] is the only laptop manufacturer I know of, that is even trying to do anything about the absurdity of emulating 19th century typewriters; although the Planck-style ortholinear layout is not my type. At one point I've been considering a tablet + a small foldable camera tripod + Corne-ish Zen[2] or similar; and a custom carrying case to fit all of these neatly. The tripod could also be useful for actual photography, and would put the screen at a reasonable height for actual work. I'm having a difficult time finding decent tablet hardware though. I would ideally like to run OpenBSD on it! [1]: https://mntmn.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt-pocket-reform.html https://mntmn.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/jyht57/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/jyht57/

rovr138 4y ago
I've been using a Advantage Pro for over 10 years now and it's great. But I still travel and use my MBP's and now my Surface Pro's keyboard. Besides shortcuts between Windows and Mac, I can type on any of them. Of course, I prefer my Kinesis, but, it's not an issue really switching.
- least 4y ago
  I don't have trouble typing but I do have trouble trying to type for a long period of time on a standard laptop keyboard because it tends to cause flare ups in my hands, the whole reason I switched to an ergonomic keyboard (in my case a Kinesis Advantage 2). I do wish there was a better option available on keyboards but alas the market is quite niche. Separating the keyboard from the laptop seems to be the only realistic option for people with those needs.
- rollcat 4y ago
  Well I'm using my Thinkpad X230 now and then (still in my top 3 best laptop keyboards), and my wrists regret it.

idatum 4y ago

Related to the Surface Pro 2, I have Ubuntu 22.04 LTS running on an 8 GiB version (i5-4300 CPU), 256 GB SSD. It's been reasonable for what I use it for, mainly SDR applications, such as CubicSDR and GNU Radio X11 apps, and multiple CLI apps like rtl_433. Audio is good, screen is fine, and WiFi works. It's nice to have a laptop if I want to use an antenna outside. Don't even bother using the tiny trackpad on that model's type cover. Bluetooth works so I use that for an external mouse. Bonus: I never even thought to try the built-in video cam, and after reading the article, I installed VLC and to my surprise the camera worked!