5 ms·

For what it's worth, I can recommend the Surface Go (2 and 3) as a tablet, even if you do not intend to run Linux. Simply because it's x86 and your not running

For what it's worth, I can recommend the Surface Go (2 and 3) as a tablet, even if you do not intend to run Linux. Simply because it's x86 and your not running Android or iOS. While the actual tablet experience in Windows 11 is mediocre, the fact that I run plain, regular desktop apps makes the device so much more enjoyable to use. It's not a replacement for a decent laptop, but as a tablet, I'd pick this one over crappy Android or locked-down iOS any time of the day.

frou_dh 4y ago
As a tablet, you'd pick a mediocre tablet experience with a regular desktop experience over a good tablet experience? As a tablet?
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  This presumes there is a good tablet experience.
  - least 4y ago
    This requires some elaboration. I'd argue that iPadOS offers an excellent tablet experience because it was built with its unique set of properties in mind. It doesn't behave exactly like a phone and it doesn't behave exactly like a laptop, but you do see elements of both in it. It offers a lot of applications that do all sorts of wonderful things. It's a great way to draw/paint, you can sculpt stuff in 3d, you can create full music tracks with professional quality. You can write books on it, you can watch your tv shows, read your comic books, and do a whole lot of stuff in a way that for me, is simply much more delightful than sitting at my computer. There's plenty of uses that it doesn't serve very well, though. The coding experience is lackluster at best. The fact that there's only one web browser engine is a miss. The fact that the concept of extensibility is severely gimped or nonexistent in applications is a miss (though the addition of extensions to safari helps a bit). The fact that there's no reasonable way to side load officially supported by Apple is awful. A lot of these points are probably ones that are important to the hacker crowd on HN so to those people they probably find it hard to overlook those shortcomings. I use my iPad every day and I love it for the things that it does do. To me that is enough to consider it a good tablet experience.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100...
    - girvo 4y ago
      While I love my iPad, I love my Boox Note 2 even more. Fantastic device for what it does: reading and note taking with crazy long battery life. I charge it once every few weeks, to a month and a half with my usage patterns. Great weird expensive but fantastic device!
      - dredmorbius 4y ago
        e-book reader is the one exception in which a tablet offers a leading experience. Even there, I'd argue that Android is the worst part of the platform.
    - LeSaucy 4y ago
      I don’t think you can do much better than an iPad Pro in the tablet space, super refined tablet experience, combined with the Microsoft rdp app to a vm or other desktop for a full x86 windows env, apple rdp to macs/MacBooks, and blink mosh ssh to Linux systems. Yes running external systems is cheating but the actual end result is insanely functional. Say what you will about iPadOS but it still gets yearly major updates and new features for free.
      - rovr138 4y ago
        I want an iPad (Pro or whatever) with a full OS. I want to run the full browser I want, if needed, I want to be able to load up some code and review/run tests and maybe start coding something simple and keep going. There are apps that kind of help, but they're not the same. I also can't say I'm always online. I went with a Surface Pro. I'm running windows which I don't particularly like, but it'll have to do for now. I would have preferred something that runs Linux over Windows, but I didn't see things with great support and I'm also not here to fight the hardware to make it work.
- kramerger 4y ago
  Maybe because you need a mobile desktop, not a tablet?
  - least 4y ago
    This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I personally don't think Microsoft quite got it right with using Windows on a tablet, though it was certainly a lot better with Windows 8, which is what the surface pro 2 (I think the first one as well?) shipped with. There's way too many compromises on usability because it's running Windows, and there's no meaningful impetus for developers to create their applications specifically with touch in mind. Apple's been much more antagonistic to developers yet they still get people making apps specifically for iPadOS in a way that neither Google nor Microsoft have managed. I think this is the advantage to their totalitarian strategy; they get less applications built for iOS/iPadOS overall and their restrictions make it significantly harder or impossible to create some things you can find easily on Windows, Android, or even MacOS, but because they control the platform they can impose minimum requirements for applications on the platform and as a result you actually get programs that run with that device's UX paradigms in mind. It probably also helps that their platform makes more money and that the iPad is already in a position of dominance in this market, but I digress. If Microsoft wants to fully realize their Surface tablet vision, they need to pump a ton of money into getting developers on board and building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets.
    - sseagull 4y ago
      I bought a Surface 7+ a few months ago and really like it. I think of it as a “laptop replacement”. My serious work is done on a desktop with 3 large monitors at home, and a laptop with two large monitors at work. So I only needed a small-ish laptop to handle the in-between. Plus I can read books or watch videos, take notes, etc, in tablet mode. > building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets I kinda don’t want this. A major selling point was that I have a full OS with the same applications on my desktop and laptop (ie, PyCharm, other python-related stuff, Firefox, custom python, bash, powershell scripts). No need to have completely different apps because the tablet maker hobbles the OS, making using a tablet in laptop mode useless. It can be awkward for sure in tablet mode, but it does kinda work.
- Macha 4y ago
  The iPad is out, too locked down for my tastes. Android is out, they've basically thrown in the towel in this space. Their newest release claims "We're back for real this time", but they already dumped it once. I'd take a desktop with touch experience over a "phone app on big screen" experience 100%. So I've ended up with a Surface Go as my tablet when I replaced my nvidia shield k1 also. The UI can be janky, but having stuff like proper multitasking, being able to use apps like VS Code or my preferred PDF reader, and actual desktop Firefox with all the extensions does outweigh that jankiness for me. I don't understand the purpose of the "big phone" tablets when phones themselves have now gotten as big as my first tablet.
  - mark_l_watson 4y ago
    iPadOS 16 beta with StageManager helps a bit, especially with the cover case/keyboard and a $10 Bluetooth mouse and a USB-C external monitor. I think future iPhones may provide similar docking and software, so, who knows, maybe in five years a phone will be good for everything as long as docking setups are available. As I said elsewhere in this thread, to use iOS or iPadOS for general use, I need a SSH/Mosh client app and a remote server. This may seem like a huge constraint but I often use SSH/Mosh on my laptops and work on remote servers. This is likely an age thing: I am 71 years old and it seems natural for me to work with remote Emacs, etc. setups.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Agree but a cons of Windows tablet is that Kindle app sucks. It's not minor problem since tablet is primary for reading books for me.
    - w4rh4wk5 4y ago
      I've never used the Kindle app, so I don't know what that user experience is like, but I've been pretty happy with Sumatra PDF for reading EPUBs. Inside the advanced settings you can adjust color, font, and font size. For me, that's all I need from an ebook reader.
      - Macha 4y ago
Findecanor 4y ago
I still use a 8" Windows tablet from 2015 every day, for the same reasons. I wish I could upgrade from the mediocre specs, but newer, better x86 tablets in this form factor simply don't exist.

frou_dh 4y ago

As a tablet, you'd pick a mediocre tablet experience with a regular desktop experience over a good tablet experience? As a tablet?

dredmorbius 4y ago
This presumes there is a good tablet experience.
- least 4y ago
  This requires some elaboration. I'd argue that iPadOS offers an excellent tablet experience because it was built with its unique set of properties in mind. It doesn't behave exactly like a phone and it doesn't behave exactly like a laptop, but you do see elements of both in it. It offers a lot of applications that do all sorts of wonderful things. It's a great way to draw/paint, you can sculpt stuff in 3d, you can create full music tracks with professional quality. You can write books on it, you can watch your tv shows, read your comic books, and do a whole lot of stuff in a way that for me, is simply much more delightful than sitting at my computer. There's plenty of uses that it doesn't serve very well, though. The coding experience is lackluster at best. The fact that there's only one web browser engine is a miss. The fact that the concept of extensibility is severely gimped or nonexistent in applications is a miss (though the addition of extensions to safari helps a bit). The fact that there's no reasonable way to side load officially supported by Apple is awful. A lot of these points are probably ones that are important to the hacker crowd on HN so to those people they probably find it hard to overlook those shortcomings. I use my iPad every day and I love it for the things that it does do. To me that is enough to consider it a good tablet experience.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100...
  - girvo 4y ago
    While I love my iPad, I love my Boox Note 2 even more. Fantastic device for what it does: reading and note taking with crazy long battery life. I charge it once every few weeks, to a month and a half with my usage patterns. Great weird expensive but fantastic device!
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      e-book reader is the one exception in which a tablet offers a leading experience. Even there, I'd argue that Android is the worst part of the platform.
  - LeSaucy 4y ago
    I don’t think you can do much better than an iPad Pro in the tablet space, super refined tablet experience, combined with the Microsoft rdp app to a vm or other desktop for a full x86 windows env, apple rdp to macs/MacBooks, and blink mosh ssh to Linux systems. Yes running external systems is cheating but the actual end result is insanely functional. Say what you will about iPadOS but it still gets yearly major updates and new features for free.
    - rovr138 4y ago
      I want an iPad (Pro or whatever) with a full OS. I want to run the full browser I want, if needed, I want to be able to load up some code and review/run tests and maybe start coding something simple and keep going. There are apps that kind of help, but they're not the same. I also can't say I'm always online. I went with a Surface Pro. I'm running windows which I don't particularly like, but it'll have to do for now. I would have preferred something that runs Linux over Windows, but I didn't see things with great support and I'm also not here to fight the hardware to make it work.
kramerger 4y ago
Maybe because you need a mobile desktop, not a tablet?
- least 4y ago
  This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I personally don't think Microsoft quite got it right with using Windows on a tablet, though it was certainly a lot better with Windows 8, which is what the surface pro 2 (I think the first one as well?) shipped with. There's way too many compromises on usability because it's running Windows, and there's no meaningful impetus for developers to create their applications specifically with touch in mind. Apple's been much more antagonistic to developers yet they still get people making apps specifically for iPadOS in a way that neither Google nor Microsoft have managed. I think this is the advantage to their totalitarian strategy; they get less applications built for iOS/iPadOS overall and their restrictions make it significantly harder or impossible to create some things you can find easily on Windows, Android, or even MacOS, but because they control the platform they can impose minimum requirements for applications on the platform and as a result you actually get programs that run with that device's UX paradigms in mind. It probably also helps that their platform makes more money and that the iPad is already in a position of dominance in this market, but I digress. If Microsoft wants to fully realize their Surface tablet vision, they need to pump a ton of money into getting developers on board and building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets.
  - sseagull 4y ago
    I bought a Surface 7+ a few months ago and really like it. I think of it as a “laptop replacement”. My serious work is done on a desktop with 3 large monitors at home, and a laptop with two large monitors at work. So I only needed a small-ish laptop to handle the in-between. Plus I can read books or watch videos, take notes, etc, in tablet mode. > building apps that fit the UX paradigms of Surface tablets I kinda don’t want this. A major selling point was that I have a full OS with the same applications on my desktop and laptop (ie, PyCharm, other python-related stuff, Firefox, custom python, bash, powershell scripts). No need to have completely different apps because the tablet maker hobbles the OS, making using a tablet in laptop mode useless. It can be awkward for sure in tablet mode, but it does kinda work.
Macha 4y ago
The iPad is out, too locked down for my tastes. Android is out, they've basically thrown in the towel in this space. Their newest release claims "We're back for real this time", but they already dumped it once. I'd take a desktop with touch experience over a "phone app on big screen" experience 100%. So I've ended up with a Surface Go as my tablet when I replaced my nvidia shield k1 also. The UI can be janky, but having stuff like proper multitasking, being able to use apps like VS Code or my preferred PDF reader, and actual desktop Firefox with all the extensions does outweigh that jankiness for me. I don't understand the purpose of the "big phone" tablets when phones themselves have now gotten as big as my first tablet.
- mark_l_watson 4y ago
  iPadOS 16 beta with StageManager helps a bit, especially with the cover case/keyboard and a $10 Bluetooth mouse and a USB-C external monitor. I think future iPhones may provide similar docking and software, so, who knows, maybe in five years a phone will be good for everything as long as docking setups are available. As I said elsewhere in this thread, to use iOS or iPadOS for general use, I need a SSH/Mosh client app and a remote server. This may seem like a huge constraint but I often use SSH/Mosh on my laptops and work on remote servers. This is likely an age thing: I am 71 years old and it seems natural for me to work with remote Emacs, etc. setups.
- fomine3 4y ago
  Agree but a cons of Windows tablet is that Kindle app sucks. It's not minor problem since tablet is primary for reading books for me.
  - w4rh4wk5 4y ago
    I've never used the Kindle app, so I don't know what that user experience is like, but I've been pretty happy with Sumatra PDF for reading EPUBs. Inside the advanced settings you can adjust color, font, and font size. For me, that's all I need from an ebook reader.
    - Macha 4y ago

Findecanor 4y ago

I still use a 8" Windows tablet from 2015 every day, for the same reasons. I wish I could upgrade from the mediocre specs, but newer, better x86 tablets in this form factor simply don't exist.