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It sounds like we agree - my post was expressly derisive of the kid who sleeps through his poetry class. Regardless, it sounds like writing poetry suggests a ro

It sounds like we agree - my post was expressly derisive of the kid who sleeps through his poetry class. Regardless, it sounds like writing poetry suggests a romantic lark to you. To me, it was a lesson in how to convey powerfully complex ideas in concise, but meaningful, language. I didn't make a lot of money right out of school, but 3 years later I was making a boatload. Why? Because I can write the kind of email that will make someone who has a job I'm able to do agree to coffee with me, and pitch myself successfully in that meeting. I'm a "go getter" who goes and finds my success, because I'm the opposite of the kind of kid who goes to sleep in his poetry class. And by the way, I taught myself programming. That CS 201 class I took was a java programming class where the instructors wrote a framework that we learned. At the end of the semester, all I knew were a bunch of the functions of their framework. Why would I need school to learn programming? Unlike my major, CS had something like 20 required courses. That's at least half of your whole university education, more once you find a particular area to focus in. However, I took an economics class from a Nobel laureate and a history class from a professor who lit the room with his enthusiasm for storytelling obscure historical anecdotes. It's the difference between reading a textbook about WWII and watching Band of Brothers. You can't get that stuff on your own. Also to clarify: I partied my face off in college, too. But it was work hard, play hard. I'm a student of life, not of how to optimize my bank balance before I'm 30. Regarding below comments: other than an internship I got during college from a graduate of my school, I haven't experienced much nepotism from my university. Most people have never heard of Washington University in St. Louis unless you work in Medicine.

maratd 15y ago
> It sounds like we agree We agree in the sense that we both believe there is value in a good education. Especially a liberal arts one. I learned how to learn in college. By taking disparate subjects, I can absorb new information with ease. That is the most tangible and valuable skill I picked up. I got it by taking random subjects. The very definition of a liberal arts education. That said, the degree itself is worthless. I never had a resume. I started my first business in college. That was 12 years ago. For me, it might have been better to simply audit those classes or do something on my own, and put the tuition in my pocket. I have a strange feeling that applies to many people here.
- billswift 15y ago
  For anyone really interested in liberal arts, you would probably be better off doing it on your own, even if college was a lot cheaper than it is. Use your money more for things that will repay the investment. There are some really good resources out there for self-study. An easy one to start with is Ron Gross's The Independent Scholar's Handbook, http://www.amazon.com/Independent-Scholars-Handbook-Ronald-Gross/dp/0201105152/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1320252225&sr=8-2 http://www.amazon.com/Independent-Scholars-Handbook-Ronald-G.... But the much older (early seventies) book This Way Out is even more useful. My Amazon review: This book is in 3 parts, the last 2 Experimental Colleges and Foreign Study are too dated to be useful. Part one is the best book for college-level self-study I have used. I first read it in the early 1980s and have reread it several times since, it is only 135 pages but packed with useful advice. The biggest weakness for the current user is that it has nothing on computers or the internet, but some of its advice such as "Write lots of short papers. Long papers kill students and tutors alike. Write lots of short papers. It will teach you too write and that, as we will demonstrate later, is essential" could almost have been written for the Web (most books on creating web pages emphasize short, to the point writing). They also mention the absolute essential for self-education - you must love to read, if you don't, then stay in college where they will force you to read. http://www.amazon.com/This-way-out-alternatives-traditional/dp/0525218009/ref=cm_cr-mr-title http://www.amazon.com/This-way-out-alternatives-traditional/...
- mahyarm 15y ago
  Degrees are still useful for work visas! It can also help with start-a-business visas too.
scott_s 15y ago
Why would I need school to learn programming? It's funny, because that's my attitude towards the liberal arts. I took almost nothing but math, physics and CS in college, and then went on to get graduate degrees in CS, but I read history, politics and public policy on my own. Also some econ and financial stuff since 2008 because I decided I wanted to understand it. In contrast, the two history classes I took in college were awful. You could just as easily flip your anecdotes - I learned an amazing amount from my technical courses, things I just wouldn't have learned by reading books on my own.
RandallBrown 15y ago
The framework your professors used was probably meant to teach you fundamentals. Sure, you can teach yourself to glue code together that you found on the Internet and get pretty good at it. The trouble comes when you get to a problem that hasn't been solved already. That's when the fundamentals you learned will kick in and actually help you.
blahedo 15y ago
> Most people have never heard of Washington University in St. Louis unless you work in Medicine. Or are old enough to remember the heyday of ftp.wustl.edu. :)

maratd 15y ago

> It sounds like we agree We agree in the sense that we both believe there is value in a good education. Especially a liberal arts one. I learned how to learn in college. By taking disparate subjects, I can absorb new information with ease. That is the most tangible and valuable skill I picked up. I got it by taking random subjects. The very definition of a liberal arts education. That said, the degree itself is worthless. I never had a resume. I started my first business in college. That was 12 years ago. For me, it might have been better to simply audit those classes or do something on my own, and put the tuition in my pocket. I have a strange feeling that applies to many people here.

billswift 15y ago
For anyone really interested in liberal arts, you would probably be better off doing it on your own, even if college was a lot cheaper than it is. Use your money more for things that will repay the investment. There are some really good resources out there for self-study. An easy one to start with is Ron Gross's The Independent Scholar's Handbook, http://www.amazon.com/Independent-Scholars-Handbook-Ronald-Gross/dp/0201105152/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1320252225&sr=8-2 http://www.amazon.com/Independent-Scholars-Handbook-Ronald-G.... But the much older (early seventies) book This Way Out is even more useful. My Amazon review: This book is in 3 parts, the last 2 Experimental Colleges and Foreign Study are too dated to be useful. Part one is the best book for college-level self-study I have used. I first read it in the early 1980s and have reread it several times since, it is only 135 pages but packed with useful advice. The biggest weakness for the current user is that it has nothing on computers or the internet, but some of its advice such as "Write lots of short papers. Long papers kill students and tutors alike. Write lots of short papers. It will teach you too write and that, as we will demonstrate later, is essential" could almost have been written for the Web (most books on creating web pages emphasize short, to the point writing). They also mention the absolute essential for self-education - you must love to read, if you don't, then stay in college where they will force you to read. http://www.amazon.com/This-way-out-alternatives-traditional/dp/0525218009/ref=cm_cr-mr-title http://www.amazon.com/This-way-out-alternatives-traditional/...
mahyarm 15y ago
Degrees are still useful for work visas! It can also help with start-a-business visas too.

scott_s 15y ago

Why would I need school to learn programming? It's funny, because that's my attitude towards the liberal arts. I took almost nothing but math, physics and CS in college, and then went on to get graduate degrees in CS, but I read history, politics and public policy on my own. Also some econ and financial stuff since 2008 because I decided I wanted to understand it. In contrast, the two history classes I took in college were awful. You could just as easily flip your anecdotes - I learned an amazing amount from my technical courses, things I just wouldn't have learned by reading books on my own.

RandallBrown 15y ago

The framework your professors used was probably meant to teach you fundamentals. Sure, you can teach yourself to glue code together that you found on the Internet and get pretty good at it. The trouble comes when you get to a problem that hasn't been solved already. That's when the fundamentals you learned will kick in and actually help you.

blahedo 15y ago

> Most people have never heard of Washington University in St. Louis unless you work in Medicine. Or are old enough to remember the heyday of ftp.wustl.edu. :)