4 ms·

Okay, I will make a note to reply to you again when these things come to pass. At some point, you have to admit that the "hysterical speculation" is really jus

by diob 4y ago

Okay, I will make a note to reply to you again when these things come to pass. At some point, you have to admit that the "hysterical speculation" is really just foresight given current events. Will you admit it then? I honestly am happy waiting to reply till then.

imgabe 4y ago
It seems like you want these things to happen so you can gloat and say "I told you so" If instead you were interested in the opposite result - making women's reproductive rights explicitly legal - what you would need to do in a democracy is convince enough people to vote for the laws you want. To do that you need to understand what the people you disagree with are actually saying and what the actual words are in the laws that you don't like. Not speculation about what you imagine the logical conclusion of their reasoning is, not what you read in a headline or a tweet about what the law says (those are often misleading and sometimes outright lies), but the real words that are in the law. From that point you can attempt to address the real arguments that the people you disagree with are really making. Addressing fake arguments that you imagined they made does not convince anyone.
- diob 4y ago
  - imgabe 4y ago
    I never said to wait and see about anything. I am saying to do something about this step that is actually happening. Not about some hypothetical step that may or may not happen in the future. As for being hysterical, it's never ok. It accomplishes nothing. Goalposts stable enough, for you?
    - diob 4y ago
      Literally talking to you and trying to get you convinced that things are at stake is doing something. I'm also active in my local community trying to change things. Why can't I do both? It's not one or the other. That's another problem y'all folks have beyond goalposts, you think we can't both talk and do. We have to raise awareness, and do. Especially with how stacked the legislative is in our country to favor minority tyranny. We have to do more than be a majority, we have to be a damn super majority or more. It sucks, but we'll keep fighting. The thing is, it's your feeling that it's hysterical, for others it's foresight. That's the thing we're talking about. Real people are going to suffer because of the decision today, that's not hysteria. If you think it is, go talk to a rape victim who is pregnant and has to carry to term. Hell, go talk to folks who lived in the times before these "possible to overturn next" decisions happened and ask about their horror stories. You're being dismissive because either you're ignorant of the consequences, or worse, you don't care. And by the way, that's not a goalpost, that's a vague thing you said "I feel X is hysteria, hysteria bad". Commit to something being too far, like a real thing. Otherwise each time something happens you'll say we don't need to be worried yet.
      - imgabe 4y ago
        I'm not a person you need to convince. I'm already on your side that abortion should be safe and legal. The way to do that is to enact laws that guarantee the right to abortion. People on the right are not a monolith. There may be a handful of lunatics who are raving about IVF or contraception, but that is not most of them. The pro-life people I've talked to online and in real life think abortion is just about irresponsible people who like to party and can't be bothered to worry about birth control. Ranting and raving at them about contraception and IVF is not going to convince them of anything as they have absolutely no opposition to either of those things.
        bavell 4y ago
        This is my position and 100% my experience as well. I appreciate you responding and engaging with others here in good faith, hopefully it will open some eyes and minds.
        magicalist 4y ago
        "Listen, we support sane policies (just not in practice due to the political leaders we vote for), but the most important thing to discuss in this situation is your rhetorical tone" is probably not the thing to pat yourselves on the back over.
        diob 4y ago
        Right? It screams of privilege.
        diob 4y ago
        Who did you vote for?
        ModernMech 4y ago
        > There may be a handful of lunatics who are raving about IVF or contraception Doesn’t matter how many there are as long as 5 of them remain on the Supreme Court.

by diob 4y ago

imgabe 4y ago

It seems like you want these things to happen so you can gloat and say "I told you so" If instead you were interested in the opposite result - making women's reproductive rights explicitly legal - what you would need to do in a democracy is convince enough people to vote for the laws you want. To do that you need to understand what the people you disagree with are actually saying and what the actual words are in the laws that you don't like. Not speculation about what you imagine the logical conclusion of their reasoning is, not what you read in a headline or a tweet about what the law says (those are often misleading and sometimes outright lies), but the real words that are in the law. From that point you can attempt to address the real arguments that the people you disagree with are really making. Addressing fake arguments that you imagined they made does not convince anyone.

diob 4y ago
- imgabe 4y ago
  I never said to wait and see about anything. I am saying to do something about this step that is actually happening. Not about some hypothetical step that may or may not happen in the future. As for being hysterical, it's never ok. It accomplishes nothing. Goalposts stable enough, for you?
  - diob 4y ago
    Literally talking to you and trying to get you convinced that things are at stake is doing something. I'm also active in my local community trying to change things. Why can't I do both? It's not one or the other. That's another problem y'all folks have beyond goalposts, you think we can't both talk and do. We have to raise awareness, and do. Especially with how stacked the legislative is in our country to favor minority tyranny. We have to do more than be a majority, we have to be a damn super majority or more. It sucks, but we'll keep fighting. The thing is, it's your feeling that it's hysterical, for others it's foresight. That's the thing we're talking about. Real people are going to suffer because of the decision today, that's not hysteria. If you think it is, go talk to a rape victim who is pregnant and has to carry to term. Hell, go talk to folks who lived in the times before these "possible to overturn next" decisions happened and ask about their horror stories. You're being dismissive because either you're ignorant of the consequences, or worse, you don't care. And by the way, that's not a goalpost, that's a vague thing you said "I feel X is hysteria, hysteria bad". Commit to something being too far, like a real thing. Otherwise each time something happens you'll say we don't need to be worried yet.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      I'm not a person you need to convince. I'm already on your side that abortion should be safe and legal. The way to do that is to enact laws that guarantee the right to abortion. People on the right are not a monolith. There may be a handful of lunatics who are raving about IVF or contraception, but that is not most of them. The pro-life people I've talked to online and in real life think abortion is just about irresponsible people who like to party and can't be bothered to worry about birth control. Ranting and raving at them about contraception and IVF is not going to convince them of anything as they have absolutely no opposition to either of those things.
      - bavell 4y ago
        This is my position and 100% my experience as well. I appreciate you responding and engaging with others here in good faith, hopefully it will open some eyes and minds.
        magicalist 4y ago
        "Listen, we support sane policies (just not in practice due to the political leaders we vote for), but the most important thing to discuss in this situation is your rhetorical tone" is probably not the thing to pat yourselves on the back over.
        diob 4y ago
        Right? It screams of privilege.
      - diob 4y ago
        Who did you vote for?
      - ModernMech 4y ago
        > There may be a handful of lunatics who are raving about IVF or contraception Doesn’t matter how many there are as long as 5 of them remain on the Supreme Court.