5 ms·

I know, it's almost like when it comes to harming other people the state has some sort of power over us. I'm sure there are some people that would love to murde

by _gabe_ 4y ago

I know, it's almost like when it comes to harming other people the state has some sort of power over us. I'm sure there are some people that would love to murder their neighbors. I mean, if that's their preference, why should the state intervene at all? If you're engaging in some activity that doesn't harm other individuals, go for it, who cares. In the case of an abortion, there's at least some gray area. I hope we can agree that aborting a child that's going to be born tomorrow is much different than aborting a child that's 2 weeks into development. When does a human life start? If we truly believe that all men are created equal, then we need to answer the question when does a life begin? Put another way, I'm sure many slave owners preferred to keep their slaves. Doesn't make it right, and it's a disgusting perverted belief, to believe somebody is less of a human because of their skin color. In the same way, who are we to say that an unborn human is less of a human than us?

andsoitis 4y ago
> When does a human life start? When you take your first breath.
- dudul 4y ago
  This has the merit of being pretty clear, in a way I like it, but then abortion can happen up until the day of the birth?
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    In principle, that's legal in much of the developed world (with various restrictions in place). But it simply never happens, as there's no practical way to abort a pregnancy that close to term without severely harming the mother (which would be criminal). Abortions in the 3rd trimester are a tiny % of the total (typically < 1%), and I can't find any reliable account of one occurring after 28 weeks or so. Seems to me the sensible cut off for when abortion becomes criminal is the point at which it simply can't be done safely. See https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/amp/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortion...
- _gabe_ 4y ago
  So if you need the assistance of a mechanical ventilator are you no longer human since you can't breathe on your own? Why would taking your first breath suddenly transform you from nonhuman to human? Further, is it ok for a hospital to stop attempting to save people once they flatline? After all, if we measure humanity according to this metric, then they ceased to he a human once they could no longer breathe.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    the question was when does life start, not what constitutes being considered alive / a human being in general. if you subsequently stop breathing, after your life has started, that's a different situation with different rules.
noelherrick 4y ago
If you actually believe that abortion is murder, then what you are saying is that you want to stop that and then make the would-be murderers to give birth to, to raise, and to pay for the victim they tried to murder. This is not a good plan. When I held my baby newly delivered, I thought he was dead. He was not alive like the toddler who asks to read books on my lap now is. It is not a binary of life is there or not. We also do not force in any other circumstance one human to give up their body for another. You may have a kidney disease and I have two healthy ones with no other conditions, but you have no right to my body. Children do not have the right to their mother's body at any stage.

by _gabe_ 4y ago

andsoitis 4y ago

> When does a human life start? When you take your first breath.

dudul 4y ago
This has the merit of being pretty clear, in a way I like it, but then abortion can happen up until the day of the birth?
- wizofaus 4y ago
  In principle, that's legal in much of the developed world (with various restrictions in place). But it simply never happens, as there's no practical way to abort a pregnancy that close to term without severely harming the mother (which would be criminal). Abortions in the 3rd trimester are a tiny % of the total (typically < 1%), and I can't find any reliable account of one occurring after 28 weeks or so. Seems to me the sensible cut off for when abortion becomes criminal is the point at which it simply can't be done safely. See https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/amp/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortion...
_gabe_ 4y ago
So if you need the assistance of a mechanical ventilator are you no longer human since you can't breathe on your own? Why would taking your first breath suddenly transform you from nonhuman to human? Further, is it ok for a hospital to stop attempting to save people once they flatline? After all, if we measure humanity according to this metric, then they ceased to he a human once they could no longer breathe.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  the question was when does life start, not what constitutes being considered alive / a human being in general. if you subsequently stop breathing, after your life has started, that's a different situation with different rules.

noelherrick 4y ago

If you actually believe that abortion is murder, then what you are saying is that you want to stop that and then make the would-be murderers to give birth to, to raise, and to pay for the victim they tried to murder. This is not a good plan. When I held my baby newly delivered, I thought he was dead. He was not alive like the toddler who asks to read books on my lap now is. It is not a binary of life is there or not. We also do not force in any other circumstance one human to give up their body for another. You may have a kidney disease and I have two healthy ones with no other conditions, but you have no right to my body. Children do not have the right to their mother's body at any stage.