3 ms·

Do you have an example of any pro-life lawmaker, pundit, anyone demanding that all embryos from IVF be kept?

by imgabe 4y ago

kibwen 4y ago
This is a natural result of placing the cutoff at conception.
- imgabe 4y ago
  No, it's not the natural result of anything. Like I said above, laws are very specifically worded in what they allow and prohibit. They are written by and for human beings. They are not computer programs which mindlessly execute every possible logical consequence.
gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
Yes, Ben Shapiro. IVF is slippy slope. Don't make any more embryos than you will implant and carry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETGY6U9wfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETGY6U9wfQ
belltaco 4y ago
Yes. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-politics-of-the-embryo/#:~:text=On%20the%20federal%20level%2C%20Senator,and%20such%20groups%20as%20the https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-politics-of-the...
- diob 4y ago
  This person is in no way interested in facts, they'll move the goalposts again after it becomes widespread practice.
  - imgabe 4y ago
    I seem to be the only one interested in facts rather than hysterical speculation. The facts are nobody can produce a law or proposed law banning contraception or IVF or requiring every embryo to be used. What's been produced so far is an article from 2005 (above) about a handful of extreme conservative groups, which has clearly gone nowhere in the past 17 years and a video of Ben Shapiro, whose only job is to say provocative bullshit.
    - diob 4y ago
      Okay, I will make a note to reply to you again when these things come to pass. At some point, you have to admit that the "hysterical speculation" is really just foresight given current events. Will you admit it then? I honestly am happy waiting to reply till then.
      - imgabe 4y ago
        It seems like you want these things to happen so you can gloat and say "I told you so" If instead you were interested in the opposite result - making women's reproductive rights explicitly legal - what you would need to do in a democracy is convince enough people to vote for the laws you want. To do that you need to understand what the people you disagree with are actually saying and what the actual words are in the laws that you don't like. Not speculation about what you imagine the logical conclusion of their reasoning is, not what you read in a headline or a tweet about what the law says (those are often misleading and sometimes outright lies), but the real words that are in the law. From that point you can attempt to address the real arguments that the people you disagree with are really making. Addressing fake arguments that you imagined they made does not convince anyone.
        diob 4y ago
        imgabe 4y ago
        I never said to wait and see about anything. I am saying to do something about this step that is actually happening. Not about some hypothetical step that may or may not happen in the future. As for being hysterical, it's never ok. It accomplishes nothing. Goalposts stable enough, for you?
        diob 4y ago
        Literally talking to you and trying to get you convinced that things are at stake is doing something. I'm also active in my local community trying to change things. Why can't I do both? It's not one or the other. That's another problem y'all folks have beyond goalposts, you think we can't both talk and do. We have to raise awareness, and do. Especially with how stacked the legislative is in our country to favor minority tyranny. We have to do more than be a majority, we have to be a damn super majority or more. It sucks, but we'll keep fighting. The thing is, it's your feeling that it's hysterical, for others it's foresight. That's the thing we're talking about. Real people are going to suffer because of the decision today, that's not hysteria. If you think it is, go talk to a rape victim who is pregnant and has to carry to term. Hell, go talk to folks who lived in the times before these "possible to overturn next" decisions happened and ask about their horror stories. You're being dismissive because either you're ignorant of the consequences, or worse, you don't care. And by the way, that's not a goalpost, that's a vague thing you said "I feel X is hysteria, hysteria bad". Commit to something being too far, like a real thing. Otherwise each time something happens you'll say we don't need to be worried yet.

Do you have an example of any pro-life lawmaker, pundit, anyone demanding that all embryos from IVF be kept?

by imgabe 4y ago

Do you have an example of any pro-life lawmaker, pundit, anyone demanding that all embryos from IVF be kept?

kibwen 4y ago

This is a natural result of placing the cutoff at conception.

imgabe 4y ago
No, it's not the natural result of anything. Like I said above, laws are very specifically worded in what they allow and prohibit. They are written by and for human beings. They are not computer programs which mindlessly execute every possible logical consequence.

gadflyinyoureye 4y ago

Yes, Ben Shapiro. IVF is slippy slope. Don't make any more embryos than you will implant and carry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETGY6U9wfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETGY6U9wfQ

belltaco 4y ago

Yes. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-politics-of-the-embryo/#:~:text=On%20the%20federal%20level%2C%20Senator,and%20such%20groups%20as%20the https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-politics-of-the...

diob 4y ago
This person is in no way interested in facts, they'll move the goalposts again after it becomes widespread practice.
- imgabe 4y ago
  I seem to be the only one interested in facts rather than hysterical speculation. The facts are nobody can produce a law or proposed law banning contraception or IVF or requiring every embryo to be used. What's been produced so far is an article from 2005 (above) about a handful of extreme conservative groups, which has clearly gone nowhere in the past 17 years and a video of Ben Shapiro, whose only job is to say provocative bullshit.
  - diob 4y ago
    Okay, I will make a note to reply to you again when these things come to pass. At some point, you have to admit that the "hysterical speculation" is really just foresight given current events. Will you admit it then? I honestly am happy waiting to reply till then.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      It seems like you want these things to happen so you can gloat and say "I told you so" If instead you were interested in the opposite result - making women's reproductive rights explicitly legal - what you would need to do in a democracy is convince enough people to vote for the laws you want. To do that you need to understand what the people you disagree with are actually saying and what the actual words are in the laws that you don't like. Not speculation about what you imagine the logical conclusion of their reasoning is, not what you read in a headline or a tweet about what the law says (those are often misleading and sometimes outright lies), but the real words that are in the law. From that point you can attempt to address the real arguments that the people you disagree with are really making. Addressing fake arguments that you imagined they made does not convince anyone.
      - diob 4y ago
        imgabe 4y ago
        I never said to wait and see about anything. I am saying to do something about this step that is actually happening. Not about some hypothetical step that may or may not happen in the future. As for being hysterical, it's never ok. It accomplishes nothing. Goalposts stable enough, for you?
        diob 4y ago
        Literally talking to you and trying to get you convinced that things are at stake is doing something. I'm also active in my local community trying to change things. Why can't I do both? It's not one or the other. That's another problem y'all folks have beyond goalposts, you think we can't both talk and do. We have to raise awareness, and do. Especially with how stacked the legislative is in our country to favor minority tyranny. We have to do more than be a majority, we have to be a damn super majority or more. It sucks, but we'll keep fighting. The thing is, it's your feeling that it's hysterical, for others it's foresight. That's the thing we're talking about. Real people are going to suffer because of the decision today, that's not hysteria. If you think it is, go talk to a rape victim who is pregnant and has to carry to term. Hell, go talk to folks who lived in the times before these "possible to overturn next" decisions happened and ask about their horror stories. You're being dismissive because either you're ignorant of the consequences, or worse, you don't care. And by the way, that's not a goalpost, that's a vague thing you said "I feel X is hysteria, hysteria bad". Commit to something being too far, like a real thing. Otherwise each time something happens you'll say we don't need to be worried yet.