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When TX first passed its law that allowed anyone to sue individuals that had or aided an abortion, Apple offered to pay for transport and the procedure for anyo

When TX first passed its law that allowed anyone to sue individuals that had or aided an abortion, Apple offered to pay for transport and the procedure for anyone at its new Austin campus. https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/17/apple-is-monitoring-legal-challenges-to-texas-abortion-law https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/17/apple-is-monitori...

JKCalhoun 4y ago
Honestly, Apple should be dialing down investment in Texas.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
  The still-unfinished Austin campus will be the largest outside of Apple Park, so....
- grapeskin 4y ago
  It's odd how many corporations have policies to help their employees escape the laws of places like Texas and Florida, but they're more than happy to relocate their offices to those states for small tax reductions. If they're truly against these policies, gutting those states of thousands of high earning jobs and refusing to build any new offices is the most effective way to do it. The Russian sanctions actually surprised me in that a lot of corporations actually pulled out and fast. I'll be even more surprised if they stay out for years to come.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    Texas didn't look quite as insane a decade or so ago when Apple began ramping up their Austin offices. I wonder how Apple feels now though.
    - ra7 4y ago
      Google also just built a brand new building in downtown Austin that will house a few thousand people.
      - metadat 4y ago
        And Oracle. Ugh.
        ra7 4y ago
        I believe Meta as well.
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        IBM, AMD, TI, and a few other big names have been here for decades.
        metadat 4y ago
        Texas Instruments was always there.. The significant part here is the new-to-texas SV tech darlings migrating, or attempting to migrate.
  - newaccount2021 4y ago
  - unmole 4y ago
    Relocating to low tax jurisdictions and boosting employee morale both contribute towards creating long term shareholder value. > The Russian sanctions actually surprised me in that a lot of corporations actually pulled out and fast. Companies either pulled out because they were legally obligated (That's what sanctions are) or they wanted to avoid reputational damage to their brands. Again, rational self interest. Corporations do not and I'd argue should not take political positions in the way people do.
    - hericium 4y ago
      > pulled out (...) to avoid reputational damage to their brands. French retailer Auchan did not move out of Russia and I have some friends who stopped shopping there and are quite vocal about how noone should shop there.
      - unmole 4y ago
        Because the company decided that the risk of reputational damage was smaller than the value of their Russian operations? The fact that they decided to stay put doesn't mean they support the invasion. Don't anthropomorphize corporations.
        ninjanomnom 4y ago
        Even if you don't want to anthropomorphize the company, it's still the smart decision to take action as if they were in this case. Social and reputation repercussions were evidently not weighed heavily enough so if we want them to take a different action in the future then we as a society needs to respond to change that weighting in the future. If you just pass it off as a company being a company seeking profit as if it were a force of nature and don't do anything about it, then you remove one of the incentives for a company to align with the morals of greater society.
        dillondoyle 4y ago
        Don't have to give them human emotions or qualities to make an ethical decision and advocate with the power of ones $
  - npteljes 4y ago
    Odd? I think it just makes business sense.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  I can see that being smart, but even after the influx of tech Austin is still a way lower cost of living than CA and their campus is close to a few good stem universities. Plus, if everyone educated leaves the place it will just perpetuate. Then again, climate change will probably make it unlivable anyway.
  - kibwen 4y ago
    > their campus is close to a few good stem universities From Scott Aaronson's blog today: https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6518 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6518 "Most obviously for me, the continued viability of Texas as a place for science, for research, for technology companies, is now in severe doubt. Already this year, our 50-member CS department at UT Austin has had faculty members leave, and faculty candidates turn us down, with abortion being the stated reason, and I expect that to accelerate."
    - carrionpigeon 4y ago
      This strikes me as wildly implausible. The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe, but I have never once heard of anyone migrating to the US over greater abortion access. It's always economic/opportunity concerns. Going further back, during the Soviet era when abortion was widespread (i.e. 2-3 abortions per live birth in the 60s-70s), did anyone want to migrate to the Eastern bloc for it? My understanding is that it was overwhelmingly the other way around, again for economic reasons. I think if people turn down jobs in states because of restrictive abortion laws, it's because they have so much choice in desirable employers that they can select on issues that almost everyone else would live with, whether they personally approve or not. And lastly, if anything is going to undermine Austin universities in terms of science research and education, it's the rampant devaluation of academic standards, excessive bureaucratization, grade inflation, and churning out of degrees in exchange for tuition money. Abortion will have little if anything to do with it.
      - kibwen 4y ago
        > The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe According to Wikipedia: "Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden and the Netherlands having more extended time limits." That's the same as what was once guaranteed in the US under Roe.
- fumar 4y ago
  I recently declined an Apple role that required Austin relocation. I like Austin and considered the move, but ultimately my family is my priority. We can't risk moving to a tech hub in a blistering red state with growing regulation on personhood. I told the recruiter Apple needs to reconsider where it plans to do long-term business.
  - KMag 4y ago
    My understanding is that Austin is actually politically moderate, though the strong authoritarianism is much more troubling to me than the heavy political slant.
    - fumar 4y ago
      That is my understanding as well. Austin itself feels like a city plucked out of blue state, but I didn't want to risk being caught in the growing Texan zeal with nowhere to go.
      - bobsil1 4y ago
        Bad latitude for climate change too
        KMag 4y ago
        Ssh... I'm still hoping it's affordable to have a vacation house in Minnesota when I retire.
        galangalalgol 4y ago
        Latitude doesn't help so much, you need altitude, or oceanfront and hope the currents dont shift and you are above the new high water mark. And when the refugees arrive your deed won't count for much, but at least you won't be a refugee.
        bcrosby95 4y ago
        I think they mean the weather more than the sea level rise - Austin's elevation is 500 feet.
- kjfdpoisfjkds 4y ago
  Will they dial down investment in nations with far worse human rights or is this just virtue signaling?
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    It's far harder to move citizens between countries and would basically be impossible on a large scales like this. Currently people are free to travel between states but who knows in 5-10 years? They may make women take pregnancy tests at the borders of states.
    - FireBeyond 4y ago
      Somewhat. They're free to travel, now, as you say, but Missouri now has the crime of "conspiracy to commit abortion" to cover you getting in your car to drive out of state, or booking a flight out of state...
  - xanaxagoras 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - wonnage 4y ago
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Do you also think guys with flags and shit on their big trucks are virtue signalling?
    - ARandomerDude 4y ago
      I don’t know many people with shit on their trucks, unless it’s from the birds before going through the car wash.
      - roflyear 4y ago
- netheril96 4y ago
  No. Texas has way lower property prices than California. Do not take that choice away.
- busterarm 4y ago
  I mean, Apple is investing hundreds of billions in China where they literally have ethnic cleansing going on.... They can't exactly be one to take principled stances can they...

JKCalhoun 4y ago

Honestly, Apple should be dialing down investment in Texas.

newaccount2021 4y ago
The still-unfinished Austin campus will be the largest outside of Apple Park, so....
grapeskin 4y ago
It's odd how many corporations have policies to help their employees escape the laws of places like Texas and Florida, but they're more than happy to relocate their offices to those states for small tax reductions. If they're truly against these policies, gutting those states of thousands of high earning jobs and refusing to build any new offices is the most effective way to do it. The Russian sanctions actually surprised me in that a lot of corporations actually pulled out and fast. I'll be even more surprised if they stay out for years to come.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Texas didn't look quite as insane a decade or so ago when Apple began ramping up their Austin offices. I wonder how Apple feels now though.
  - ra7 4y ago
    Google also just built a brand new building in downtown Austin that will house a few thousand people.
    - metadat 4y ago
      And Oracle. Ugh.
      - ra7 4y ago
        I believe Meta as well.
        spacemanmatt 4y ago
        IBM, AMD, TI, and a few other big names have been here for decades.
        metadat 4y ago
        Texas Instruments was always there.. The significant part here is the new-to-texas SV tech darlings migrating, or attempting to migrate.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
- unmole 4y ago
  Relocating to low tax jurisdictions and boosting employee morale both contribute towards creating long term shareholder value. > The Russian sanctions actually surprised me in that a lot of corporations actually pulled out and fast. Companies either pulled out because they were legally obligated (That's what sanctions are) or they wanted to avoid reputational damage to their brands. Again, rational self interest. Corporations do not and I'd argue should not take political positions in the way people do.
  - hericium 4y ago
    > pulled out (...) to avoid reputational damage to their brands. French retailer Auchan did not move out of Russia and I have some friends who stopped shopping there and are quite vocal about how noone should shop there.
    - unmole 4y ago
      Because the company decided that the risk of reputational damage was smaller than the value of their Russian operations? The fact that they decided to stay put doesn't mean they support the invasion. Don't anthropomorphize corporations.
      - ninjanomnom 4y ago
        Even if you don't want to anthropomorphize the company, it's still the smart decision to take action as if they were in this case. Social and reputation repercussions were evidently not weighed heavily enough so if we want them to take a different action in the future then we as a society needs to respond to change that weighting in the future. If you just pass it off as a company being a company seeking profit as if it were a force of nature and don't do anything about it, then you remove one of the incentives for a company to align with the morals of greater society.
      - dillondoyle 4y ago
        Don't have to give them human emotions or qualities to make an ethical decision and advocate with the power of ones $
- npteljes 4y ago
  Odd? I think it just makes business sense.
galangalalgol 4y ago
I can see that being smart, but even after the influx of tech Austin is still a way lower cost of living than CA and their campus is close to a few good stem universities. Plus, if everyone educated leaves the place it will just perpetuate. Then again, climate change will probably make it unlivable anyway.
- kibwen 4y ago
  > their campus is close to a few good stem universities From Scott Aaronson's blog today: https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6518 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6518 "Most obviously for me, the continued viability of Texas as a place for science, for research, for technology companies, is now in severe doubt. Already this year, our 50-member CS department at UT Austin has had faculty members leave, and faculty candidates turn us down, with abortion being the stated reason, and I expect that to accelerate."
  - carrionpigeon 4y ago
    This strikes me as wildly implausible. The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe, but I have never once heard of anyone migrating to the US over greater abortion access. It's always economic/opportunity concerns. Going further back, during the Soviet era when abortion was widespread (i.e. 2-3 abortions per live birth in the 60s-70s), did anyone want to migrate to the Eastern bloc for it? My understanding is that it was overwhelmingly the other way around, again for economic reasons. I think if people turn down jobs in states because of restrictive abortion laws, it's because they have so much choice in desirable employers that they can select on issues that almost everyone else would live with, whether they personally approve or not. And lastly, if anything is going to undermine Austin universities in terms of science research and education, it's the rampant devaluation of academic standards, excessive bureaucratization, grade inflation, and churning out of degrees in exchange for tuition money. Abortion will have little if anything to do with it.
    - kibwen 4y ago
      > The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe According to Wikipedia: "Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden and the Netherlands having more extended time limits." That's the same as what was once guaranteed in the US under Roe.
fumar 4y ago
I recently declined an Apple role that required Austin relocation. I like Austin and considered the move, but ultimately my family is my priority. We can't risk moving to a tech hub in a blistering red state with growing regulation on personhood. I told the recruiter Apple needs to reconsider where it plans to do long-term business.
- KMag 4y ago
  My understanding is that Austin is actually politically moderate, though the strong authoritarianism is much more troubling to me than the heavy political slant.
  - fumar 4y ago
    That is my understanding as well. Austin itself feels like a city plucked out of blue state, but I didn't want to risk being caught in the growing Texan zeal with nowhere to go.
    - bobsil1 4y ago
      Bad latitude for climate change too
      - KMag 4y ago
        Ssh... I'm still hoping it's affordable to have a vacation house in Minnesota when I retire.
      - galangalalgol 4y ago
        Latitude doesn't help so much, you need altitude, or oceanfront and hope the currents dont shift and you are above the new high water mark. And when the refugees arrive your deed won't count for much, but at least you won't be a refugee.
        bcrosby95 4y ago
        I think they mean the weather more than the sea level rise - Austin's elevation is 500 feet.
kjfdpoisfjkds 4y ago
Will they dial down investment in nations with far worse human rights or is this just virtue signaling?
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  It's far harder to move citizens between countries and would basically be impossible on a large scales like this. Currently people are free to travel between states but who knows in 5-10 years? They may make women take pregnancy tests at the borders of states.
  - FireBeyond 4y ago
    Somewhat. They're free to travel, now, as you say, but Missouri now has the crime of "conspiracy to commit abortion" to cover you getting in your car to drive out of state, or booking a flight out of state...
- xanaxagoras 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - wonnage 4y ago
- roflyear 4y ago
  Do you also think guys with flags and shit on their big trucks are virtue signalling?
  - ARandomerDude 4y ago
    I don’t know many people with shit on their trucks, unless it’s from the birds before going through the car wash.
    - roflyear 4y ago
netheril96 4y ago
No. Texas has way lower property prices than California. Do not take that choice away.
busterarm 4y ago
I mean, Apple is investing hundreds of billions in China where they literally have ethnic cleansing going on.... They can't exactly be one to take principled stances can they...