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Arkansas Bill (2021) Establishing a Database for Tracking Women Seeking Abortion
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- chroem- 4y agoThose legally gray firearms databases were not a good precedent.
- akamaka 4y agoI think the events of this week should put an end to this line of argument, which claims that protecting gun rights will have a positive halo effect on all other human rights.
- chroem- 4y agoOr perhaps the takeaway should be that lawfare can invite more lawfare.
- krapp 4y agoWhy are we assuming this wouldn't have happened either way? It seems to me that the repeal of Roe v. Wade is the only precedent necessary. Given that abortion is illegal in Arkansas, the tracking of women seeking abortions is far less legally grey than the tracking of gun owners.
- shadowgovt 4y agoI'm not sure why the idea "If we pass laws, we will additionally pass laws in the future" is supposed to be interesting. Yes, passing laws is one of the functions of government.
- chroem- 4y agoThe premise of lawfare is that you enact laws and legal precedents primarily with intent of undermining your opponent, rather than to benefit anyone in particular. The American right just realized that they can do this too.
- tomrod 4y ago"Too"? Please elaborate. From what I've seen, the right has done this a long time, be it dumbing down education, defunding social services, advocating for war to benefit their lobbyist friends, or restricting access to nature's bounty.
- chroem- 4y agoPunishment is in the eye of the beholder: the left and right don't care about the same issues, and that's the principle that makes it possible to hurt your opponent through lawfare without hurting yourself. Eliminating federal protections for abortions annoys the left without hurting the right. Conversely, banning religious services during covid while promoting protest gatherings bothered the right, but not the left. You wouldn't be able to list the lawfare issues that bothered the right, because that's the point. Lawfare is only lawfare to your opponent, not to yourself.
- mjmsmith 4y agoSo your contention is that conservatives don't need abortions, and liberals don't go to church?
- tomrod 4y agoNo, your answer avoids the point you made. You made a specific claim that the left was using lawfare first. Please elaborate on that.
- chroem- 4y agoIf you choose to ignore the example I just gave, that's on you, but luckily I can provide additional examples from the last few years: - bans on legal ownership of certain types of firearms while simultaneously weakening firearms penalties for the primary types of gun violence: gang and drug crimes - using lawsuits and legal harassment to shut down right leaning personalities, businesses, and institutions - selective prosecution by activist DAs, depending on political alignment Shall I list more? And, again, these are supposed to be things that you feel are justified, but the right does not, because that's the purpose of lawfare.
- aaomidi 4y agoAh yes, without that it wouldn't have happened. You've solved it! All this time, abortion rights would've been maintained if that one law had not been passed.
- dqpb 4y agoThis will be useful when Gilead needs to select handmaids.
- schreiaj 4y agohttps://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/Detail?id=HB1195&ddBienniumSession=2021%2F2021R https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/Detail?id=HB1195&ddBien... works a bit better for me - full text was broken in the trackbill UI
- kibwen 4y agoIf you're seeking an abortion, be careful not to communicate that fact using any service that stores data in one of the regressive states, lest the state government subpoena that service so that they can put you on a watchlist like this.
- AlexandrB 4y agoBetter yet, treat the situation like you're assembling a bomb: Mullvad/Tor, Signal, DDG, clean phone/laptop if you can afford it. Adtech surveillance/tracking is extremely pervasive at this point and it's hard to be sure where data about you will end up.
- walrus01 4y agoDuckduckgo is just a skin on top of bing and I sure wouldn't say it's a smart idea to search bing for bomb recipes.
- felurx 4y agoThat's a pretty bold claim, do you have any sources?
- walrus01 4y agohttps://www.theregister.com/2022/06/17/brave_duckduckgo/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/17/brave_duckduckgo/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/25/duckduckgo_browser_microsoft_privacy/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/25/duckduckgo_browser_mi... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19380174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19380174 https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-and-points-to-bing-220419/ https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-an...
- KMag 4y agoMore generally, once you realize your state is authoritarian, it might be too late to cover your tracks. Always protect your privacy, even when you think it'll be fine.
- AgentOrange1234 4y agoHow do we pollute it with garbage?
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
- beckingz 4y agoTroll it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
- jleyank 4y agoStuff it full of 10% or higher people. They have daughters who go oops as much as any other and deserve the attention and excitement, especially if they make foreign trips.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoPing anonymous?
- tzm 4y ago>To create the Every Mom Matters Act; To provide healthcare support to pregnant women in Arkansas; And to stabilize families and reduce the number of abortions performed in the state. And for other purposes. Everyone who calls the hotline (per legal requirement) would be entered into the database. The hotline is in Texas, costs $175,000 to set up and $4.8 million to operate. Expected to be functional by 2023. https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/politics/arkansas-lawmakers-have-given-final-approval-to-legislation-requiring-women-seeking-an-abortion-to-call-a-hotline-before-they-can-undergo-the-procedur/527-30a98930-dc01-4d4e-9a5d-bc257d4da4a7 https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/politics/arkansas-l...
- KMag 4y agoTime to figure out how to convince people that a database auto-increment primary key is the mark of the beast.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y agoThey'll give a pregnant woman health care, but then at 2 yrs old they assume the baby can fend for itself, and no more health care. Their bill is literally a George Carlin bit. “Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to 9 months. After that, they don’t wanna know about you. They don’t wanna hear from you. No nothing! No neonatal care, no daycare, no Head Start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you’re pre-born, you’re fine, if you’re preschool, you’re fucked.” - George Carlin
- pragmatic 4y agoBut we have all the stuff. Medical care is free to the poor. Housing is free to the poor. Food is free to the poor. School lunch was free to everyone the last few years and continued to be reduced or free to lower income. The scope and breadth of federal, state and local programs in this country would is mind boggling. I currently work at a former startup in this area and my wife works with low income families.
- pragmatic 4y agoOne caveat I’ll add: even with the huge account of public and private money spent in this area, it can never be enough. When something is free that everyone needs is there is almost infinite demand.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y agoThe poor don't get free housing. Homeless shelters do exists, largely subsidized by private charities, and there are way too few of them, and they are incredibly dangerous. For those who get Section 8 vouchers (after waiting for years), nobody will take them. There is a good chunk of free food out there, but not in food deserts, which of course disproportionately affect poor minorities. If medical care is free to the poor, why does everyone have to go to the emergency room, and why are firefighters acting like EMTs with big red trucks? Why are there so many physically and mentally ill people on the streets? School lunches continue to be defunded (even this year, during a pandemic, during massive inflation) and not available enough in poor minority communities.
- imgabe 4y agoA bill is a proposed law. Was this passed and enacted?
- f38zf5vdt 4y agoAct 90 of the session. The votes are listed lower in the document.
- mewse 4y agoYes, passed early last year and it goes into effect at the start of 2023. I’m not a big fan of your implication that there’s something wrong with discussing legislation while it’s still pending, though. That’s honestly the best and most useful time for people to be discussing it.
- Invictus0 4y agoI don't think parent implied that at all. This is a global forum, there is no need for this forum to debate bills in a small corner of one country with little technology presence.
- mewse 4y ago
- Invictus0 4y agoJeez, have you seen the HN guidelines recently? Wtf is this comment
- Ancapistani 4y ago> in a small corner of one country with little technology presence I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Acxiom is headquartered in Conway, AR: https://www.acxiom.com/about-us/locations/ https://www.acxiom.com/about-us/locations/ They’re a very well-established datamining company. In fact, they’re the first ones I recall hearing about, like twenty years ago.
- 4y ago
- aaomidi 4y agoWonder which provider they're going to use.
- beckingz 4y agoI hope that the engineers working on this stop. Ethics in tech are uncommon but goodness we could use some more.
- AlexandrB 4y agoThere are pro-life engineers out there. Moreover, this appeal to morality hasn't worked for any other tech issue out there.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- chillingeffect 4y ago> pro-life The more accurate correct term is anti-choice.
- kibwen 4y agoThat's still too broad, the more accurate term would be pro-state-coerced-birth. Less punchy, I admit.
- KMag 4y agoYou don't have to agree with their axioms to understand how a small number of simple axioms lead to their beliefs, right? The hard truth that few people talk about is that very few people believe in banning early abortions of unviable fetuses or in cases of rape, very few people believe in allowing elective abortions of viable fetuses in the 40th week, and it's hard to find an objective scientific line in the middle ground. It's a problem requiring a very nuanced compromise in a society that has a very hard time with nuance, and as a result, is having a harder and harder time with compromise.
- kibwen 4y agoYou don't need an objective scientific line; any sort policy being codified into law (in any context, not just abortion) will be subject to interpetation, exceptions, and context. Instead, you just need a reasonable compromise. And as far as reasonable compromises go, we had a quite good one until hours ago, when states began stripping our rights away. It is possible to be against abortion for oneself while also supporting the rights of other people to make that decision themselves. Abortion is not a recreational drug that people take just to have a good time, it's a harrowing medical procedure that is unfortunately necessary.
- chillingeffect 4y agoOklahoma, too [1]. So much for "small government". [1] https://news.yahoo.com/oklahoma-wants-database-track-women-183143104.html https://news.yahoo.com/oklahoma-wants-database-track-women-1...
- O__________O 4y agoRelated.... Data Broker Is Selling Location Data of People Who Visit Abortion Clinics https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31250805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31250805
- breadloaf 4y agoI am glad that EU has GDPR and this thing would be short lived and expensive.