4 ms·

This is probably the wrong time and place to ask, but I've been wondering: what is the definition of left vs right outside the US? As far as I understand it, t

This is probably the wrong time and place to ask, but I've been wondering: what is the definition of left vs right outside the US? As far as I understand it, the fundamental and (seemingly) globally agreed upon divide is that Far Left = The State is in [presumably benevolent] control, and Far Right = The State is in [presumably malicious] control, while regular Left = The State knows what's best for The People (because it is derived from pure democracy) while regular Right = The People know what's best for themselves (and choose representatives for situations where multiple individuals are involved). How far off am I, from a global perspective?

candiodari 4y ago
The problem is US has no health care for all. Minimum wage, especially as compared to average or the standard of poverty is very low in the US, the immigration stance of even the "far left" would definitely count as anti-immigration in Europe (yes, I know, despite the numbers favoring the US, and the US being ethnically far more diverse than Europe), US has the death sentence, and now the abortion stance ... All of those are things that even the far right in Europe wouldn't dare suggest, yet the leftmost party in the US stands behind them, or is at least willing to accept them.
soderfoo 4y ago
It's difficult to graph the ideologies, which are rooted in each countries culture and history, on to another's. Voter ID is a non controversial issue in many countries. In the US I've seen arguments against it from both sides. Disparate impact concerns from the left, privacy and freedom from the feds on the right.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  The problem with voter ID (and a whole lot of other issues like easyness of ID theft via SSNs) is that the US - as one of very few developed nations - has no requirement for a citizen to have a valid government issued ID card because of right-wing crazies. The Left does not criticize voter ID per se, the Left criticizes that many people are effectively locked out from voting because obtaining ID cards can be an utter pain in the ass.
ABCLAW 4y ago
>How far off am I, from a global perspective? I think this view of right/left as an axis of government optimizing for freedom/control is only very prevalent in particularly right-wing commonwealth discourse. The law and construction of social systems in the common-law English tradition stem from a position that one can do anything unless barred by law, including in situations where it hurts others. The law of equity, largely derived from religious canon law, existed as a separate system layered upon the common law court system of 'hard rules' to fix situations wherein the application of common-law would lead to morally suspect outcomes. The situation in civilian countries, by contrast, generally define a sphere of acceptable behavior which explicitly excludes abusive and intentionally harmful behavior - the restrictions on behavior are baked in. Civilian-derived systems are far more common than those from the commonwealth, and accordingly the types of discussions had in each are very different on this point. The result is it's very rare to conceive of left and right in terms of freedom, because most other nations derive from systems in which freedom is already viewed as one element to be balanced against other considerations rather than the unmitigated chief virtue upon which all analysis is founded. Even in the commonwealth, progressive discourse is not driven in terms of de-jure freedoms, it's driven by de-facto freedoms, largely economic and social freedoms. The government only needs to be restrained when it restricts social rights or maintain economic systems that strip dignity from individuals. Generally, however, these aren't discussed in terms of the degree of freedoms afforded, but rather in terms of rights and equality before the law.

candiodari 4y ago

The problem is US has no health care for all. Minimum wage, especially as compared to average or the standard of poverty is very low in the US, the immigration stance of even the "far left" would definitely count as anti-immigration in Europe (yes, I know, despite the numbers favoring the US, and the US being ethnically far more diverse than Europe), US has the death sentence, and now the abortion stance ... All of those are things that even the far right in Europe wouldn't dare suggest, yet the leftmost party in the US stands behind them, or is at least willing to accept them.

soderfoo 4y ago

It's difficult to graph the ideologies, which are rooted in each countries culture and history, on to another's. Voter ID is a non controversial issue in many countries. In the US I've seen arguments against it from both sides. Disparate impact concerns from the left, privacy and freedom from the feds on the right.

mschuster91 4y ago
The problem with voter ID (and a whole lot of other issues like easyness of ID theft via SSNs) is that the US - as one of very few developed nations - has no requirement for a citizen to have a valid government issued ID card because of right-wing crazies. The Left does not criticize voter ID per se, the Left criticizes that many people are effectively locked out from voting because obtaining ID cards can be an utter pain in the ass.

ABCLAW 4y ago

>How far off am I, from a global perspective? I think this view of right/left as an axis of government optimizing for freedom/control is only very prevalent in particularly right-wing commonwealth discourse. The law and construction of social systems in the common-law English tradition stem from a position that one can do anything unless barred by law, including in situations where it hurts others. The law of equity, largely derived from religious canon law, existed as a separate system layered upon the common law court system of 'hard rules' to fix situations wherein the application of common-law would lead to morally suspect outcomes. The situation in civilian countries, by contrast, generally define a sphere of acceptable behavior which explicitly excludes abusive and intentionally harmful behavior - the restrictions on behavior are baked in. Civilian-derived systems are far more common than those from the commonwealth, and accordingly the types of discussions had in each are very different on this point. The result is it's very rare to conceive of left and right in terms of freedom, because most other nations derive from systems in which freedom is already viewed as one element to be balanced against other considerations rather than the unmitigated chief virtue upon which all analysis is founded. Even in the commonwealth, progressive discourse is not driven in terms of de-jure freedoms, it's driven by de-facto freedoms, largely economic and social freedoms. The government only needs to be restrained when it restricts social rights or maintain economic systems that strip dignity from individuals. Generally, however, these aren't discussed in terms of the degree of freedoms afforded, but rather in terms of rights and equality before the law.