4 ms·

He got legitimately DMCA stricken, then he manufactured a campaign of illegitimate DMCA strikes and hoped he could get his own strike overturned as part of the

He got legitimately DMCA stricken, then he manufactured a campaign of illegitimate DMCA strikes and hoped he could get his own strike overturned as part of the reversal of illegitimate strikes.

squarefoot 4y ago
And that idiot revenge campaign served him with over $7M in damages. Assuming he can't pay even a fraction of that amount, what is going to happen to this genius? Will he land in jail for some time? I have mixed feelings about this however: pretty sure that if they inverted the roles, that is, it was the big company that sent bogus DMCA take down requests, the outcome wouldn't change: the small fish would still be eaten.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >And that idiot revenge campaign served him with over $7M in damages. Assuming he can't pay even a fraction of that amount, what is going to happen to this genius? Will he land in jail for some time? Thankfully, we don't have explicit (although there's plenty of incarcerated folks who wouldn't spend a day in jail if they had enough money to fight whatever bullshit charges are brought against them) debtor's prisons, so probably not.
  - thfuran 4y ago
    But isn't filing a false DMCA takedown in and of itself illegal, beyond any civil damages caused? Edit: Okay, the filing requires asserting "under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly in-fringed." But I'm not sure whether anyone has ever been prosecuted for perjury for something like this. It's seemingly generally resolved only by suing for damages.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >But isn't filing a false DMCA takedown in and of itself illegal, beyond any civil damages caused? According to this site[0]: "...if someone files a fraudulent DMCA takedown notice, they can be sued for the damages caused, along with the costs and attorneys’ fees that were incurred in pursuing those damages. In many cases, the costs of attorneys’ fees can far outweigh the actual damages." Apparently, there is standing for civil action against someone filing a fake DMCA claim, but no criminal penalties. But YMMV. The above was just the first relevant link in a search for 'criminal fake dmca claims'. [0] http://smithlawtlh.com/false-fraudulent-bad-faith-dmca-take-claims/ http://smithlawtlh.com/false-fraudulent-bad-faith-dmca-take-...
      - thfuran 4y ago
        That article also mentions that (at least some aspect of) the filing is made under penalty of perjury. So, theoretically, there's potential for criminal charges for abuse of DMCA process. I think that just never gets prosecuted.
        nobody9999 4y ago
        >That article also mentions that (at least some aspect of) the filing is made under penalty of perjury. So, theoretically, there's potential for criminal charges for abuse of DMCA process. I think that just never gets prosecuted. The relevant Federal laws[0] do appear to support your assertions. That said, it's apparently a bit more complicated to prosecute someone in the context of a false DMCA takedown requests. Even more, you can't put a corporate entity in jail (limited liability, the corporate veil, etc.), only people. As such, I imagine that unless there's something really egregious (and this situation might be an example of that -- ask a US Attorney -- I'm not one of those), I suppose Federal prosecutors could charge someone with perjury over such false claims. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1750-comparison-perjury-statutes-18-usc-1621-and-1623 https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual...
- grepfru_it 4y ago
  Here's what will happen. He will lose the $7M civil suit. He will have a judgement of $7M that Bungie is free to collect on such as wage garnishments if his home state allows it or repossessing any assets the state doesn't protect (many states block repossession of your primary household). At this point his option is Bankruptcy. Depending on his total assets, a judge will either allow Chapter 7 or Chapter 13. Chapter 13 happens when you negotiate with your creditors based on your income. In Chapter 7, you discharge the entirety of the debt. If he does not file Bankruptcy, then Bungie can reinstate the judgement every 10 years (time depends on the state) and continue collecting until his death. After Bankruptcy, the debt will follow him for 7 years (possibly more as unscrupulous debt buyers will give him a taste of his own medicine filing invalid, but hard to prove, claims on his credit report). The size of the debt may make seeking employment difficult. Having a judgement of any size will limit his ability to rent houses or getting any sort of credit. And good luck getting any kind of government clearance. This is the real debtor's prison which will regulate him to living under sleazy landlords likely in questionable locations, getting loans with insanely high APRs, and having to use his own money to generate credit (secured credit cards). Even though judgements last for 7 years, after bankruptcy you are usually out of this prison in 3-4 years. FWIW, many loan officers may look at that judgement as a clerical error (someone pressed 0 too many times) but once they ask for clarity all bets are off. But I've heard many stories of people climbing into a $50K car loan a year after bankruptcy so his mileage may vary EDIT: Bungie and this gentleman could settle out of court with no judgement as well. The filed civil suit will still be a public record but that is much lower weight on one's credit score. The out of court settlement could stipulate no more bungie content being uploaded or posted on the internet for a period of time. There are many different directions, what I outlined is if this person does not respond or otherwise loses the civil suit
  - bluGill 4y ago
    In some cases court judgements are not discharged in bankruptcy. Not sure about this one though
    - grepfru_it 4y ago
      Civil cases are dischargable. Government judgements iirc cannot be discharged. The two most well known are IRS debt and government backed student loan debt EDIT: the government agency has a method to discharge the debt, which is why the courts will not intervene except under extraordinary circumstances

He got legitimately DMCA stricken, then he manufactured a campaign of illegitimate DMCA strikes and hoped he could get his own strike overturned as part of the reversal of illegitimate strikes.

squarefoot 4y ago

And that idiot revenge campaign served him with over $7M in damages. Assuming he can't pay even a fraction of that amount, what is going to happen to this genius? Will he land in jail for some time? I have mixed feelings about this however: pretty sure that if they inverted the roles, that is, it was the big company that sent bogus DMCA take down requests, the outcome wouldn't change: the small fish would still be eaten.

nobody9999 4y ago
>And that idiot revenge campaign served him with over $7M in damages. Assuming he can't pay even a fraction of that amount, what is going to happen to this genius? Will he land in jail for some time? Thankfully, we don't have explicit (although there's plenty of incarcerated folks who wouldn't spend a day in jail if they had enough money to fight whatever bullshit charges are brought against them) debtor's prisons, so probably not.
- thfuran 4y ago
  But isn't filing a false DMCA takedown in and of itself illegal, beyond any civil damages caused? Edit: Okay, the filing requires asserting "under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly in-fringed." But I'm not sure whether anyone has ever been prosecuted for perjury for something like this. It's seemingly generally resolved only by suing for damages.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >But isn't filing a false DMCA takedown in and of itself illegal, beyond any civil damages caused? According to this site[0]: "...if someone files a fraudulent DMCA takedown notice, they can be sued for the damages caused, along with the costs and attorneys’ fees that were incurred in pursuing those damages. In many cases, the costs of attorneys’ fees can far outweigh the actual damages." Apparently, there is standing for civil action against someone filing a fake DMCA claim, but no criminal penalties. But YMMV. The above was just the first relevant link in a search for 'criminal fake dmca claims'. [0] http://smithlawtlh.com/false-fraudulent-bad-faith-dmca-take-claims/ http://smithlawtlh.com/false-fraudulent-bad-faith-dmca-take-...
    - thfuran 4y ago
      That article also mentions that (at least some aspect of) the filing is made under penalty of perjury. So, theoretically, there's potential for criminal charges for abuse of DMCA process. I think that just never gets prosecuted.
      - nobody9999 4y ago
        >That article also mentions that (at least some aspect of) the filing is made under penalty of perjury. So, theoretically, there's potential for criminal charges for abuse of DMCA process. I think that just never gets prosecuted. The relevant Federal laws[0] do appear to support your assertions. That said, it's apparently a bit more complicated to prosecute someone in the context of a false DMCA takedown requests. Even more, you can't put a corporate entity in jail (limited liability, the corporate veil, etc.), only people. As such, I imagine that unless there's something really egregious (and this situation might be an example of that -- ask a US Attorney -- I'm not one of those), I suppose Federal prosecutors could charge someone with perjury over such false claims. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1750-comparison-perjury-statutes-18-usc-1621-and-1623 https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual...
grepfru_it 4y ago
Here's what will happen. He will lose the $7M civil suit. He will have a judgement of $7M that Bungie is free to collect on such as wage garnishments if his home state allows it or repossessing any assets the state doesn't protect (many states block repossession of your primary household). At this point his option is Bankruptcy. Depending on his total assets, a judge will either allow Chapter 7 or Chapter 13. Chapter 13 happens when you negotiate with your creditors based on your income. In Chapter 7, you discharge the entirety of the debt. If he does not file Bankruptcy, then Bungie can reinstate the judgement every 10 years (time depends on the state) and continue collecting until his death. After Bankruptcy, the debt will follow him for 7 years (possibly more as unscrupulous debt buyers will give him a taste of his own medicine filing invalid, but hard to prove, claims on his credit report). The size of the debt may make seeking employment difficult. Having a judgement of any size will limit his ability to rent houses or getting any sort of credit. And good luck getting any kind of government clearance. This is the real debtor's prison which will regulate him to living under sleazy landlords likely in questionable locations, getting loans with insanely high APRs, and having to use his own money to generate credit (secured credit cards). Even though judgements last for 7 years, after bankruptcy you are usually out of this prison in 3-4 years. FWIW, many loan officers may look at that judgement as a clerical error (someone pressed 0 too many times) but once they ask for clarity all bets are off. But I've heard many stories of people climbing into a $50K car loan a year after bankruptcy so his mileage may vary EDIT: Bungie and this gentleman could settle out of court with no judgement as well. The filed civil suit will still be a public record but that is much lower weight on one's credit score. The out of court settlement could stipulate no more bungie content being uploaded or posted on the internet for a period of time. There are many different directions, what I outlined is if this person does not respond or otherwise loses the civil suit
- bluGill 4y ago
  In some cases court judgements are not discharged in bankruptcy. Not sure about this one though
  - grepfru_it 4y ago
    Civil cases are dischargable. Government judgements iirc cannot be discharged. The two most well known are IRS debt and government backed student loan debt EDIT: the government agency has a method to discharge the debt, which is why the courts will not intervene except under extraordinary circumstances