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Crypto does solve a few real world issues (fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value). But it seems that some people thought it fixes the "i wa

Crypto does solve a few real world issues (fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value). But it seems that some people thought it fixes the "i want to get rich fast" problem, and was bloated as a result. It was never meant for that problem.

maxerickson 4y ago
Except it isn't particularly fast, cheap, secure or anonymous.
doopy1 4y ago
No realistic takes on crypto allowed on HN, you might get banned.
- chaps 4y ago
  Can you explain why you think it's realistic? Nothing they claim seems to hold much truth in-practice.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Describing crypto transactions as fast and cheap? Yeah, incredibly realistic!
- arcturus17 4y ago
  The idea that crypto solved "fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value" is not "realistic" - it's preposterous.
  - doopy1 4y ago
    It's faster and cheaper than a bank transfer and receiving party can maintain anonymity, so yes it's realistic.
- noAnswer 4y ago
  Bitcoin can only process 7 transactions per second globally. Ethereum 25. That is not fast. If you want to get an actual transfer cheapness goes out of the window. And it is not anonym either.
  - 0des 4y ago
    There are much faster cryptoasset networks, which I'm sure you already know, but the problem then becomes liquidity and volume required to not create slippage in the process.
al_borland 4y ago
With the first big boom, weren’t wallet companies (which most people seem to need to make things easy enough) requiring photo IDs to open accounts? That kids the anonymized piece and once that’s gone the traditional means were already fast and cheap (and I assume global as well). I think the idea of digital cash is cool, but practically speaking, it isn’t enough of a upside to deal with crypto. I can’t even tell you the last time I used actual cash. It was at least a year ago.
hnthrow1010 4y ago
>Crypto does solve a few real world issues (fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value). Crypto does not solve any of those issues. The actual solution to most of those issues is called a "payment service" of which there were many that existed before blockchains. How is it do you suppose that companies like ebay and amazon were able to securely and quickly process internet payments in the 90s? They certainly didn't need blockchains to do it. You could argue that they aren't anonymized, but neither is crypto; it is only pseudonymous at best, in practice it is not even that as the exchanges that do the bare minimum of fraud prevention will require you to identify yourself.
arcturus17 4y ago
> Crypto does solve a few real world issues (fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value). I pay people from Argentina to Ukraine and there are myriad ways I can transfer them money quickly (seconds, sometimes), cheaply (down to fractions of cent on the dollar) and securely without resorting to crypto. I have no need for total anonymity but from what I hear crypto is not great on that front, either.
- LeafItAlone 4y ago
  Can you share your methods of doing this? I’m naive and unfamiliar with payments that are settled in seconds and also fractions of a cent to conduct, but would like to learn.
  - arcturus17 4y ago
    I can do an instant SEPA transfer within the EU for a flat fee of 20€… For 5,000€ that’s literally fractions on the cent. There are plenty of other options if you dig deep into permutations of banking systems, neobanks, payment apps, etc.
outworlder 4y ago
> fast Not fast. Most cryptocurrencies have unbearably slow transaction or confirmation times. Maybe if you are buying a car, they will be confirmed by the time the paperwork is done. Even with initiatives like the lightning network, it's still slow. So much so that some of the major exchanges will tally your transactions off-chain, to be confirmed later. > cheap It really isn't. Be it gas fees or computational power > secure Eh, depends. Surely the transaction itself may be from the blockchain's viewpoint. But if your coins get stolen or your exchange gets hacked you really have no recourse. And that's just one issue. And before anyone says "hardware wallet", exploits have been found for those as well, assuming they were even secure to begin with. > anonymized They are not anonymous. With a few exceptions, all transactions are visible in the chain, forever. This works as long as you never need to convert to/from fiat. The moment you do, your identity is exposed - even retroactively. It's way worse than cash. Tumblers only help so much.
- EL_Loco 4y ago
  I'll agree with anyone saying that this NFT craze is idiotic, and that most cryptocurrencies don't have any utility, but to say that crypto isn't fast, cheap or secure is like saying 90's internet couldn't have webpages with pictures because gopher couldn't have pictures. I send money to my sister from my algorand wallet to hers in one second (literally), any amount for something like $0.0001. I'm not well versed enough in security to make any claim about safety, but if I have to trust someone regarding the security of some software, it might as well be this company's founder. Right now it's by far the best method to send money accross the globe. edit: forgot to add that it's also very energy efficient
  - hnthrow1010 4y ago
    >Right now it's by far the best method to send money accross the globe. No it is not. In banking and in payments, security typically means that there are guarantees your money will not suddenly disappear or get stolen by hacks and fraud, which cryptocurrencies have zero guarantees against. In fact, it is extremely likely that at some point your money will disappear, because the value of these coins is extremely manipulated. And that is not even getting into the huge number of defi hacks, rug pulls and bankruptcies that have happened recently.

maxerickson 4y ago

Except it isn't particularly fast, cheap, secure or anonymous.

doopy1 4y ago

No realistic takes on crypto allowed on HN, you might get banned.

chaps 4y ago
Can you explain why you think it's realistic? Nothing they claim seems to hold much truth in-practice.
ethanbond 4y ago
Describing crypto transactions as fast and cheap? Yeah, incredibly realistic!
arcturus17 4y ago
The idea that crypto solved "fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value" is not "realistic" - it's preposterous.
- doopy1 4y ago
  It's faster and cheaper than a bank transfer and receiving party can maintain anonymity, so yes it's realistic.
noAnswer 4y ago
Bitcoin can only process 7 transactions per second globally. Ethereum 25. That is not fast. If you want to get an actual transfer cheapness goes out of the window. And it is not anonym either.
- 0des 4y ago
  There are much faster cryptoasset networks, which I'm sure you already know, but the problem then becomes liquidity and volume required to not create slippage in the process.

al_borland 4y ago

With the first big boom, weren’t wallet companies (which most people seem to need to make things easy enough) requiring photo IDs to open accounts? That kids the anonymized piece and once that’s gone the traditional means were already fast and cheap (and I assume global as well). I think the idea of digital cash is cool, but practically speaking, it isn’t enough of a upside to deal with crypto. I can’t even tell you the last time I used actual cash. It was at least a year ago.

hnthrow1010 4y ago

>Crypto does solve a few real world issues (fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value). Crypto does not solve any of those issues. The actual solution to most of those issues is called a "payment service" of which there were many that existed before blockchains. How is it do you suppose that companies like ebay and amazon were able to securely and quickly process internet payments in the 90s? They certainly didn't need blockchains to do it. You could argue that they aren't anonymized, but neither is crypto; it is only pseudonymous at best, in practice it is not even that as the exchanges that do the bare minimum of fraud prevention will require you to identify yourself.

arcturus17 4y ago

> Crypto does solve a few real world issues (fast, global, cheap, secure, anonymized transfer of value). I pay people from Argentina to Ukraine and there are myriad ways I can transfer them money quickly (seconds, sometimes), cheaply (down to fractions of cent on the dollar) and securely without resorting to crypto. I have no need for total anonymity but from what I hear crypto is not great on that front, either.

LeafItAlone 4y ago
Can you share your methods of doing this? I’m naive and unfamiliar with payments that are settled in seconds and also fractions of a cent to conduct, but would like to learn.
- arcturus17 4y ago
  I can do an instant SEPA transfer within the EU for a flat fee of 20€… For 5,000€ that’s literally fractions on the cent. There are plenty of other options if you dig deep into permutations of banking systems, neobanks, payment apps, etc.

outworlder 4y ago

> fast Not fast. Most cryptocurrencies have unbearably slow transaction or confirmation times. Maybe if you are buying a car, they will be confirmed by the time the paperwork is done. Even with initiatives like the lightning network, it's still slow. So much so that some of the major exchanges will tally your transactions off-chain, to be confirmed later. > cheap It really isn't. Be it gas fees or computational power > secure Eh, depends. Surely the transaction itself may be from the blockchain's viewpoint. But if your coins get stolen or your exchange gets hacked you really have no recourse. And that's just one issue. And before anyone says "hardware wallet", exploits have been found for those as well, assuming they were even secure to begin with. > anonymized They are not anonymous. With a few exceptions, all transactions are visible in the chain, forever. This works as long as you never need to convert to/from fiat. The moment you do, your identity is exposed - even retroactively. It's way worse than cash. Tumblers only help so much.

EL_Loco 4y ago
I'll agree with anyone saying that this NFT craze is idiotic, and that most cryptocurrencies don't have any utility, but to say that crypto isn't fast, cheap or secure is like saying 90's internet couldn't have webpages with pictures because gopher couldn't have pictures. I send money to my sister from my algorand wallet to hers in one second (literally), any amount for something like $0.0001. I'm not well versed enough in security to make any claim about safety, but if I have to trust someone regarding the security of some software, it might as well be this company's founder. Right now it's by far the best method to send money accross the globe. edit: forgot to add that it's also very energy efficient
- hnthrow1010 4y ago
  >Right now it's by far the best method to send money accross the globe. No it is not. In banking and in payments, security typically means that there are guarantees your money will not suddenly disappear or get stolen by hacks and fraud, which cryptocurrencies have zero guarantees against. In fact, it is extremely likely that at some point your money will disappear, because the value of these coins is extremely manipulated. And that is not even getting into the huge number of defi hacks, rug pulls and bankruptcies that have happened recently.