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Fully anonymous global ransomware would be really hard without cryptos. Monetizing hacked boxes would be much tougher if you could not turn them into Monero mi

by nikanj 4y ago

Fully anonymous global ransomware would be really hard without cryptos. Monetizing hacked boxes would be much tougher if you could not turn them into Monero miners.

doopy1 4y ago
It's not fully anonymous even WITH crypto. They have call centers. Banning crypto won't make ransomware go away, it will just increase the cost of ransom.
- giaour 4y ago
  > Banning crypto won't make ransomware go away, it will just increase the cost of ransom. That must be why ransomware demands were so much higher in the pre-bitcoin era. Unless you're including the cost of sending a cargo jet full of cash or gold halfway around the world?
  - doopy1 4y ago
    Before bitcoin was still the early days of ransomware. It existed mostly as tech support scams. Now that the floodgates have been opened ransoms will go back to being high-risk western union payments and will be much higher. You can't put the cat back in the bag.
    - giaour 4y ago
      This is laughably naive. Western Union payments are high-risk for the ransomer, since they have to go pick the money up. Also, Western Union has pretty low limits on how much you can send ($10K for US->US transfers, less for international transfers). Getting a million dollars (a low ransom in today's ecosystem) via Western Union would require at least 100 pickups, each of which comes with a risk of getting arrested. There is a reason ransom amounts skyrocketed when cryptocurrency entered the picture, and no, it's not because it was "the early days" pre-bitcoin.
phabricator 4y ago
It wasn't that hard. Payment was in pre-paid credit cards.
- giaour 4y ago
  Try to move millions across international borders with prepaid cards and tell me how that works out for you.
bredren 4y ago
So would dark markets. Dark markets are described as a small piece of the pie for LE. But P2P music sharing / digital music sales was also that way until they couldn't be ignored and ultimately destroyed traditional music distribution. There is a reason big, reliable markets get shut down and it isn't all exit scams. It's because they're incredibly successful and they would not be so without crypto. The ransomware market is too hard for most to get into and the "deals" take time to put together. There's not a great reason for them to prop up coin value. However, dark markets are open to just about anyone, and presumably haven't even begun to touch growth potential. All that said: throw in parent's value prop too--is bitcoin worth $20k a coin today? IDK, maybe? I sold bitcoin-embroidered hoodies at the first ever national bitcoin conference in san jose for half a coin and that seemed a bit nuts.
- SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
  > But P2P music sharing / digital music sales was also that way until they couldn't be ignored and ultimately destroyed traditional music distribution. Traditional music distribution was buying an easily damaged CD for $20 a pop (in 90's dollars). We would have moved to digital distribution anyway, P2P was just a catalyst.

by nikanj 4y ago

Fully anonymous global ransomware would be really hard without cryptos. Monetizing hacked boxes would be much tougher if you could not turn them into Monero miners.

doopy1 4y ago

It's not fully anonymous even WITH crypto. They have call centers. Banning crypto won't make ransomware go away, it will just increase the cost of ransom.

giaour 4y ago
> Banning crypto won't make ransomware go away, it will just increase the cost of ransom. That must be why ransomware demands were so much higher in the pre-bitcoin era. Unless you're including the cost of sending a cargo jet full of cash or gold halfway around the world?
- doopy1 4y ago
  Before bitcoin was still the early days of ransomware. It existed mostly as tech support scams. Now that the floodgates have been opened ransoms will go back to being high-risk western union payments and will be much higher. You can't put the cat back in the bag.
  - giaour 4y ago
    This is laughably naive. Western Union payments are high-risk for the ransomer, since they have to go pick the money up. Also, Western Union has pretty low limits on how much you can send ($10K for US->US transfers, less for international transfers). Getting a million dollars (a low ransom in today's ecosystem) via Western Union would require at least 100 pickups, each of which comes with a risk of getting arrested. There is a reason ransom amounts skyrocketed when cryptocurrency entered the picture, and no, it's not because it was "the early days" pre-bitcoin.

phabricator 4y ago

It wasn't that hard. Payment was in pre-paid credit cards.

giaour 4y ago
Try to move millions across international borders with prepaid cards and tell me how that works out for you.

bredren 4y ago

So would dark markets. Dark markets are described as a small piece of the pie for LE. But P2P music sharing / digital music sales was also that way until they couldn't be ignored and ultimately destroyed traditional music distribution. There is a reason big, reliable markets get shut down and it isn't all exit scams. It's because they're incredibly successful and they would not be so without crypto. The ransomware market is too hard for most to get into and the "deals" take time to put together. There's not a great reason for them to prop up coin value. However, dark markets are open to just about anyone, and presumably haven't even begun to touch growth potential. All that said: throw in parent's value prop too--is bitcoin worth $20k a coin today? IDK, maybe? I sold bitcoin-embroidered hoodies at the first ever national bitcoin conference in san jose for half a coin and that seemed a bit nuts.

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
> But P2P music sharing / digital music sales was also that way until they couldn't be ignored and ultimately destroyed traditional music distribution. Traditional music distribution was buying an easily damaged CD for $20 a pop (in 90's dollars). We would have moved to digital distribution anyway, P2P was just a catalyst.