4 ms·

It's not a baby, it's a fetus. The potential for being a baby is not a baby. And by what mental contortion is it not a woman's body? You're obviously not speaki

It's not a baby, it's a fetus. The potential for being a baby is not a baby. And by what mental contortion is it not a woman's body? You're obviously not speaking from the position of having your life and health put at risk by carrying something that puts the greatest strain on a human body most will ever endure.

lolinder 4y ago
My wife believes exactly the same as the OP, and she is most definitely speaking from that perspective. :) This isn't a gendered issue, it's a worldview one. There's a very small skew towards males preferring it be illegal, but it's not enough to write off all opposition as male: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > There's a very small skew towards males preferring it be illegal Women favor legality by +28 percentage points Men favor legality by +17 percentage points That's...not a particularly small gender skew.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    That's not how to read these numbers. Your way of counting doubles the actual gender gap. 63 percent of women say abortion should be legal in all/most cases. 58 percent of men say abortion should be legal in all/most cases. That's an ~5 percentage point gender gap, not a 10 percentage point gap.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      It's a 11 percentage point margin shift, and that is the correct way to view it. While neutral is a small position on this issue because it has high salience and is polarizing, neutral is a valid choice (which is also why the difference in “should be legal” is not identical to the difference in “should be illegal”.)
      - lolinder 4y ago
        Ah, that's a fair approach. I was thinking of it this way: Hallucinaut assumed that armitron was male, because a female would never make that argument. However, 46% of people who believe that abortion should be illegal in almost all cases are female, which makes Hallucinaut's assumption very bad. Your approach is valid in other contexts, but I don't think it's the most relevant to the question I was addressing.
tjs8rj 4y ago
Fetus literally means unborn baby. The only difference between a fetus and a baby 10 minutes before birth is position in space (one’s in a womb). Would you support abortion 10 minutes before birth? A day? A week? At what point are you just murdering a baby?
- ajford 4y ago
  And development, which you seem to skip over. Most people draw the line at third trimester, which is generally when a fetus is viable outside the body. A fetus in the first or second trimester isn't capable of life outside the mother's womb. A vanishingly small percentage of people are even considering late-term abortions, but that's what you seem to be fixated on in all these threads.
  - tjs8rj 4y ago
    I “fixate” on that question because that’s the argument everyone is making: that any interference in abortion is unjust. The reality is (as you seem to agree) is that in some instances there’s little difference from baby murder - hence why restrictions on abortion can be just

lolinder 4y ago

My wife believes exactly the same as the OP, and she is most definitely speaking from that perspective. :) This isn't a gendered issue, it's a worldview one. There's a very small skew towards males preferring it be illegal, but it's not enough to write off all opposition as male: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...

dragonwriter 4y ago
> There's a very small skew towards males preferring it be illegal Women favor legality by +28 percentage points Men favor legality by +17 percentage points That's...not a particularly small gender skew.
- lolinder 4y ago
  That's not how to read these numbers. Your way of counting doubles the actual gender gap. 63 percent of women say abortion should be legal in all/most cases. 58 percent of men say abortion should be legal in all/most cases. That's an ~5 percentage point gender gap, not a 10 percentage point gap.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    It's a 11 percentage point margin shift, and that is the correct way to view it. While neutral is a small position on this issue because it has high salience and is polarizing, neutral is a valid choice (which is also why the difference in “should be legal” is not identical to the difference in “should be illegal”.)
    - lolinder 4y ago
      Ah, that's a fair approach. I was thinking of it this way: Hallucinaut assumed that armitron was male, because a female would never make that argument. However, 46% of people who believe that abortion should be illegal in almost all cases are female, which makes Hallucinaut's assumption very bad. Your approach is valid in other contexts, but I don't think it's the most relevant to the question I was addressing.

tjs8rj 4y ago

Fetus literally means unborn baby. The only difference between a fetus and a baby 10 minutes before birth is position in space (one’s in a womb). Would you support abortion 10 minutes before birth? A day? A week? At what point are you just murdering a baby?

ajford 4y ago
And development, which you seem to skip over. Most people draw the line at third trimester, which is generally when a fetus is viable outside the body. A fetus in the first or second trimester isn't capable of life outside the mother's womb. A vanishingly small percentage of people are even considering late-term abortions, but that's what you seem to be fixated on in all these threads.
- tjs8rj 4y ago
  I “fixate” on that question because that’s the argument everyone is making: that any interference in abortion is unjust. The reality is (as you seem to agree) is that in some instances there’s little difference from baby murder - hence why restrictions on abortion can be just