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This has to be the most ergonomically inefficient set-up ever! I also cannot fathom how to work with < 2 big monitors (> 21" at least). And a tiling window man

This has to be the most ergonomically inefficient set-up ever! I also cannot fathom how to work with < 2 big monitors (> 21" at least). And a tiling window manager. And a decent mechanical keyboard... ok ok.. Interesting setup. I'd be interested in knowing how it works out in the long term.

moconnor 15y ago
The wireless keyboard is really good; it's not quite as nice as a mechanical one, but it's easily better than a laptop keyboard. If I ever go back to my MacBook, I'll take the keyboard with me. I have a tiling window manager. It has one tile.
- jpdoctor 15y ago
  There is only one time that my batteries die on the wireless: When I don't have fresh ones nearby. Also, some server firedrill also increases the probability exponentially. I'm sure it's a consequence of thermodynamics, but I can't explain it.
- brider 15y ago
  I think you may be missing the point about mechanical keyboards, my friend. The appeal of a mechanical keyboard stems from the switches under the keys that offer varied pressure curves, pressure thresholds, and physical feedback (depending on the switch type). Both the apple wireless keyboard and MBP laptop keyboard use scissor switches which are the typical laptop keyboard switch type. Some people like this switch type, some people do not. But if you're to say something like "it's easily better than a laptop keyboard" you can only make such a claim based on size or number/position of keys, since both use the same switch type. I'd wager a guess that the nature of the key switches is probably what your parent is interested in.
  - grk 15y ago
    I have a 13" MBP and a USB apple keyboard. The keys really feel different, despite same layout. External keyboard has easier to feel clicks and requires more pressure. Could be the use on my laptop, though (2 years vs 1 year).
    - brider 15y ago
      You may be correct in that instance, then. The older USB apple keyboards likely use rubber membrane key switches rather than the scissor switch type. In which case, the feel of the keys would definitely be different. I personally was referring to the newer apple wireless keyboards.
      - rahoulb 15y ago
        I have a 2010 MBA, a 2010 Apple Bluetooth keyboard and a 2011 Apple USB keyboard (with number pad). They all feel different, even if the switching mechanism is the same - the Bluetooth one is best (by a long way).
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
josefresco 15y ago
Not just lack of screen space but looking "down" to your screen even tilted on a table will wreak havoc on our neck/spine which extends to your extremities (and head) quickly. Simply slouching and tilting your head up pinches nerves in your neck which leads quickly to wrist/arm pain.
- mgcross 15y ago
  Yes, "text neck" is a serious problem with working on laptop/tablet. Using an external keyboard would allow for proper placement of the display on a desk. But manipulating the iPad via swipes while positioned at head level could lead to shoulder problems!
exDM69 15y ago
A tiling window manager can definitely be a huge productivity booster. Perhaps even more than adding an extra display, which is often said to be the cheapest way to improve productivity. A tiling WM costs nothing. I've even started working comfortably using just one display now that I've changed to using a tiling WM. With a floating wm, I needed at least two large displays to work comfortably. Lots of that screen area was wasted just by showing a little desktop in between of poorly arranged windows. I'll never go back to floating windows with frames and decorations.
- dextorious 15y ago
  ""Perhaps even more than adding an extra display, which is often said to be the cheapest way to improve productivity."" And which can also be a way to decrease productivity, with distractions etc. I am more productive on a smaller screen laptop than I am on a 2 screen set or even one larger (21, 27") screen. Mainly because it helps to focus on the task at hand. We also didn't have 2 large monitors to each workstation back in the day, and somehow we did fine. Spoiled much?
  - rapind 15y ago
    We used to program with punch cards... so yeah we're spoiled and damn happy about it.
    - dextorious 15y ago
      Evoking punch cards? As a programmer, you must know about diminishing returns, right?
      - rapind 15y ago
        Nevermind diminishing returns, how about full circle? Eventually all of this abstraction will become so hard (and buggy) to maintain that we'll go back to using punch cards.
  - ceol 15y ago
scottschulthess 15y ago
Having multiple monitors isn't good eronomically IMO. I always prefer what I'm working on to be on direct center, and I don't really see the point of having other stuff that isn't direct center. I prefer to alt-tab.
- agentultra 15y ago
  I have a large monitor on an arm in the center flanked by monitors to either side. My main monitor just has a full-screen emacs. The other monitors are for peripheral information such as browsers, irc sessions, email, etc. It's great for keeping API docs open while I'm working without leaving my editor. Having the center monitor on an arm just lets me adjust it's height when I move between leaning forward, slouching, or sitting straight, standing, etc. A single monitor is limiting as it requires more context switches as I swap out windows in my viewing area. It's much nicer to just leave all the important windows open in a nice grid that spans multiple displays.
  - scottschulthess 15y ago
    I get it: I used to use 3 monitors. I just have found that if you want to read something, I prefer it to be on the center monitor anyways, so what's the point in having multiple monitors? Plus, I prefer to work on my laptop screen, because it's more flexible - I can put my feet up, move around, change positions easier. Just my own personal preference
  - rapind 15y ago
    I love 3 monitor setups, with the big one in the middle and two cheap small ones on either side. All my input (editing, browsing, etc.) happens in the big fancy middle window. Test logs on the left, and server logs on the right. The only time I use the side monitors for anything else is if I'm following along with a screencast.
- alphadogg 15y ago
  Are you sure of that? My understanding is that there's no difference between single and multi-monitors, ergonomically.
sliverstorm 15y ago
Once upon a time programming was a lot of thinking, a little typing, and even less compiling. Maybe even some pen+paper and chalkboards. If you go back to that way of programming, I don't see why poor ergos would be a problem. Certainly not "in vogue" and I don't know if it's feasible today. Still an interesting thought.
- seigenblues 15y ago
  why did this get downvoted? it's a valid point. This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was downvoted. Anyone care to explain?
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    I have seen this kind of thing more and more as of late. I have concluded we are beginning to see downvotes used as "dislike" rather than "disagree". For example, suppose I posted a comment irrefutably proving that Ruby was the worst programming language ever written. A year or two ago, I would have been upvoted for making useful observations. I suspect today I would be downvoted, because people like Ruby. Note: I have nothing against Ruby. It is an example.
    - jiggy2011 15y ago
      The way I see it , downvoting is intended for comments which are "bad" (irrelevent , rude , incomprehensible , just rehashing what has already been said etc) this makes sense because downvoted comments are made harder to read. Just because most people disagree with a post does not necessarily mean it is not worth reading.. Pherhaps there should be a seperate disagree button but I don't see what purposes it would serve , when I read a comment I decide whether or not I agree with it , whether other people do or not does not matter unless they are pointing out factual errors.
      - sliverstorm 15y ago
        I'm also ok with downvoting for comments which you "disagree (factually)", aka you strongly believe the comment is simply objectively incorrect. For example, if I made an unsubstantiated statement that "Water is composed of Hydrogen and Nitrogen", that would be worthy of downvotes. Where that gets tricky is when someone asserts something couter to common wisdom, but attempts to substantiate it. You then need to evaluate their defense first.
rayiner 15y ago
I used to program with a 24" monitor. Then I switched almost exclusively to my 13" Macbook/Pro and haven't looked back. The screen is just the right size to fit two 80x25 text editor windows side-by-side when full-screened. Swiping back and forth with Mission Control is almost as quick as switching your glance from one big monitor to another. Having your "mouse" right below your keyboard makes clicking something only marginally more time consuming than contorting your hands to hit an Emacs command sequence. Probably still faster with the big setup, but I get a lot of mileage out of my little setup and I get a huge productivity/creativity boost from being able to wander around the house, head to a Starbucks, etc.
- ConstantineXVI 15y ago
  Neat bit I picked up on from Mission Control; if you're using the trackpad swipes (vs ctrl-arrow) to switch, if you don't swipe all the way (roughly 1/3 screen), you can "peek" over at the next space w/o switching and spring back when you let go instead of having to swipe back.
  - rayiner 15y ago
    Wow, thanks! Mission Control is pretty fricking awesome.
    - marcamillion 15y ago
      Do you guys use Mission Control with multiple browser windows? It doesn't work for me. I find that when I have 3 Chrome windows open in one 'desktop', when I swipe to the other one and click Chrome it sends me back to the main 'desktop' where the other 3 windows are. I don't want to have to use Firefox or some other browser in my other space. How do I use Chrome in both, or is that not possible?
mushishi 15y ago
I use 27" Dell for my Java development and 11" MacBook Air for Javascript. The bigger screen is essential for pair programming but 11" is almost good enough for most purposes. Its size causes most problems when I need to inspect the dom inside a browser.
jebblue 15y ago
Seconded, thanks you saved me a lot of typing. :-)

moconnor 15y ago

The wireless keyboard is really good; it's not quite as nice as a mechanical one, but it's easily better than a laptop keyboard. If I ever go back to my MacBook, I'll take the keyboard with me. I have a tiling window manager. It has one tile.

jpdoctor 15y ago
There is only one time that my batteries die on the wireless: When I don't have fresh ones nearby. Also, some server firedrill also increases the probability exponentially. I'm sure it's a consequence of thermodynamics, but I can't explain it.
brider 15y ago
I think you may be missing the point about mechanical keyboards, my friend. The appeal of a mechanical keyboard stems from the switches under the keys that offer varied pressure curves, pressure thresholds, and physical feedback (depending on the switch type). Both the apple wireless keyboard and MBP laptop keyboard use scissor switches which are the typical laptop keyboard switch type. Some people like this switch type, some people do not. But if you're to say something like "it's easily better than a laptop keyboard" you can only make such a claim based on size or number/position of keys, since both use the same switch type. I'd wager a guess that the nature of the key switches is probably what your parent is interested in.
- grk 15y ago
  I have a 13" MBP and a USB apple keyboard. The keys really feel different, despite same layout. External keyboard has easier to feel clicks and requires more pressure. Could be the use on my laptop, though (2 years vs 1 year).
  - brider 15y ago
    You may be correct in that instance, then. The older USB apple keyboards likely use rubber membrane key switches rather than the scissor switch type. In which case, the feel of the keys would definitely be different. I personally was referring to the newer apple wireless keyboards.
    - rahoulb 15y ago
      I have a 2010 MBA, a 2010 Apple Bluetooth keyboard and a 2011 Apple USB keyboard (with number pad). They all feel different, even if the switching mechanism is the same - the Bluetooth one is best (by a long way).

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

josefresco 15y ago

Not just lack of screen space but looking "down" to your screen even tilted on a table will wreak havoc on our neck/spine which extends to your extremities (and head) quickly. Simply slouching and tilting your head up pinches nerves in your neck which leads quickly to wrist/arm pain.

mgcross 15y ago
Yes, "text neck" is a serious problem with working on laptop/tablet. Using an external keyboard would allow for proper placement of the display on a desk. But manipulating the iPad via swipes while positioned at head level could lead to shoulder problems!

exDM69 15y ago

A tiling window manager can definitely be a huge productivity booster. Perhaps even more than adding an extra display, which is often said to be the cheapest way to improve productivity. A tiling WM costs nothing. I've even started working comfortably using just one display now that I've changed to using a tiling WM. With a floating wm, I needed at least two large displays to work comfortably. Lots of that screen area was wasted just by showing a little desktop in between of poorly arranged windows. I'll never go back to floating windows with frames and decorations.

dextorious 15y ago
""Perhaps even more than adding an extra display, which is often said to be the cheapest way to improve productivity."" And which can also be a way to decrease productivity, with distractions etc. I am more productive on a smaller screen laptop than I am on a 2 screen set or even one larger (21, 27") screen. Mainly because it helps to focus on the task at hand. We also didn't have 2 large monitors to each workstation back in the day, and somehow we did fine. Spoiled much?
- rapind 15y ago
  We used to program with punch cards... so yeah we're spoiled and damn happy about it.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    Evoking punch cards? As a programmer, you must know about diminishing returns, right?
    - rapind 15y ago
      Nevermind diminishing returns, how about full circle? Eventually all of this abstraction will become so hard (and buggy) to maintain that we'll go back to using punch cards.
- ceol 15y ago

scottschulthess 15y ago

Having multiple monitors isn't good eronomically IMO. I always prefer what I'm working on to be on direct center, and I don't really see the point of having other stuff that isn't direct center. I prefer to alt-tab.

agentultra 15y ago
I have a large monitor on an arm in the center flanked by monitors to either side. My main monitor just has a full-screen emacs. The other monitors are for peripheral information such as browsers, irc sessions, email, etc. It's great for keeping API docs open while I'm working without leaving my editor. Having the center monitor on an arm just lets me adjust it's height when I move between leaning forward, slouching, or sitting straight, standing, etc. A single monitor is limiting as it requires more context switches as I swap out windows in my viewing area. It's much nicer to just leave all the important windows open in a nice grid that spans multiple displays.
- scottschulthess 15y ago
  I get it: I used to use 3 monitors. I just have found that if you want to read something, I prefer it to be on the center monitor anyways, so what's the point in having multiple monitors? Plus, I prefer to work on my laptop screen, because it's more flexible - I can put my feet up, move around, change positions easier. Just my own personal preference
- rapind 15y ago
  I love 3 monitor setups, with the big one in the middle and two cheap small ones on either side. All my input (editing, browsing, etc.) happens in the big fancy middle window. Test logs on the left, and server logs on the right. The only time I use the side monitors for anything else is if I'm following along with a screencast.
alphadogg 15y ago
Are you sure of that? My understanding is that there's no difference between single and multi-monitors, ergonomically.

sliverstorm 15y ago

Once upon a time programming was a lot of thinking, a little typing, and even less compiling. Maybe even some pen+paper and chalkboards. If you go back to that way of programming, I don't see why poor ergos would be a problem. Certainly not "in vogue" and I don't know if it's feasible today. Still an interesting thought.

seigenblues 15y ago
why did this get downvoted? it's a valid point. This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was downvoted. Anyone care to explain?
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  I have seen this kind of thing more and more as of late. I have concluded we are beginning to see downvotes used as "dislike" rather than "disagree". For example, suppose I posted a comment irrefutably proving that Ruby was the worst programming language ever written. A year or two ago, I would have been upvoted for making useful observations. I suspect today I would be downvoted, because people like Ruby. Note: I have nothing against Ruby. It is an example.
  - jiggy2011 15y ago
    The way I see it , downvoting is intended for comments which are "bad" (irrelevent , rude , incomprehensible , just rehashing what has already been said etc) this makes sense because downvoted comments are made harder to read. Just because most people disagree with a post does not necessarily mean it is not worth reading.. Pherhaps there should be a seperate disagree button but I don't see what purposes it would serve , when I read a comment I decide whether or not I agree with it , whether other people do or not does not matter unless they are pointing out factual errors.
    - sliverstorm 15y ago
      I'm also ok with downvoting for comments which you "disagree (factually)", aka you strongly believe the comment is simply objectively incorrect. For example, if I made an unsubstantiated statement that "Water is composed of Hydrogen and Nitrogen", that would be worthy of downvotes. Where that gets tricky is when someone asserts something couter to common wisdom, but attempts to substantiate it. You then need to evaluate their defense first.

rayiner 15y ago

I used to program with a 24" monitor. Then I switched almost exclusively to my 13" Macbook/Pro and haven't looked back. The screen is just the right size to fit two 80x25 text editor windows side-by-side when full-screened. Swiping back and forth with Mission Control is almost as quick as switching your glance from one big monitor to another. Having your "mouse" right below your keyboard makes clicking something only marginally more time consuming than contorting your hands to hit an Emacs command sequence. Probably still faster with the big setup, but I get a lot of mileage out of my little setup and I get a huge productivity/creativity boost from being able to wander around the house, head to a Starbucks, etc.

ConstantineXVI 15y ago
Neat bit I picked up on from Mission Control; if you're using the trackpad swipes (vs ctrl-arrow) to switch, if you don't swipe all the way (roughly 1/3 screen), you can "peek" over at the next space w/o switching and spring back when you let go instead of having to swipe back.
- rayiner 15y ago
  Wow, thanks! Mission Control is pretty fricking awesome.
  - marcamillion 15y ago
    Do you guys use Mission Control with multiple browser windows? It doesn't work for me. I find that when I have 3 Chrome windows open in one 'desktop', when I swipe to the other one and click Chrome it sends me back to the main 'desktop' where the other 3 windows are. I don't want to have to use Firefox or some other browser in my other space. How do I use Chrome in both, or is that not possible?

mushishi 15y ago

I use 27" Dell for my Java development and 11" MacBook Air for Javascript. The bigger screen is essential for pair programming but 11" is almost good enough for most purposes. Its size causes most problems when I need to inspect the dom inside a browser.

jebblue 15y ago

Seconded, thanks you saved me a lot of typing. :-)