5 ms·

It is important to note the position was that of the Hospital and not a legal position. All laws in place or being contemplated allow for abortive procedures in

It is important to note the position was that of the Hospital and not a legal position. All laws in place or being contemplated allow for abortive procedures in medical emergencies such as when the mothers life is in danger. For instance, the Mississippi law which was the impetus of the recent SCOTUS ruling has the following language: “[e]xcept in a medical emergency or in the case of a severe fetal abnormality, a person shall not intentionally or knowingly perform . . . or induce an abortion" There are issues with the ICD10 codes related to D&C procedures as they reference or include the word 'abortion'. This should be resolved by the AMA.

31835843 4y ago
This presumes that every hospital in the US knows the laws. Far from the case.
- altacc 4y ago
  Their lawyers know the laws and they write hospital policies that stop them getting prosecuted and losing their license to operate, so will err on the side of the law, not patients.
lelandfe 4y ago
> All laws in place or being contemplated allow for abortive procedures in medical emergencies SB 612[0] in Oklahoma made abortions a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison. I'm not sure how many doctors will feel comfortable making that call. ...Especially considering HB 4327 then empowers citizens to stage witch hunts against those providers. Imagine developing a reputation for performing abortions in that situation. [0] Which defined a "medical emergency" as "a condition which cannot be remedied by delivery of the child in which an abortion is necessary to preserve the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered" – a high bar to clear. https://legiscan.com/OK/text/SB612/id/2564710 https://legiscan.com/OK/text/SB612/id/2564710
- lelandfe 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/abortion-bans-patient-doctor-medical-advice https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/abortion-bans-... Article discussing this chilling effect.
- kokanator 4y ago
  Do you mean a stringent bar? A bar that is hard to identify? Full text of "emergency": “Medical emergency” means a condition which cannot be remedied by delivery of the child in which an abortion is necessary to preserve the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness or physical injury including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself." This is very clear a covers all possible situations where the pregnant woman's life would be in danger. This is very straight forward. If however, you mean to say it restricts abortions too far, you are arguing a different point.
  - lelandfe 4y ago
    I believe you’re underselling how straightforward this is, and you’ve actually already got it a bit wrong: > covers all possible situations where the pregnant woman's life would be in danger The woman’s life being in danger is the second clause. The first is that an abortion is necessary to address it. It is a mighty task to prove that an abortion was necessary, and empowered citizens can frivolously bring lawsuits.
- raptor99 4y ago
  To me that's the beauty of the United States and the republic that we live in. If Oklahoma has laws and rules that you think are outrageous then move to a different state. On top of even that, if things are just too outrageous here to stand, then move out of the country, like all the media and celebrities that claimed they would move to Canada if and when certain people were elected.
  - romellem 4y ago
    “Just move” seems to imply they made a choice to live there in the first place. Often that isn’t true. What is a 17 year born in Oklahoma to do? Telling them to “just move” when they probably have very little money of their own and probably no family support doesn’t seem very empathetic.
mattnewton 4y ago
This is a lot of room for selective enforcement even in the Mississippi law. All it takes are criminal penalties for a doctor to hesitate or even refuse to perform potentially life saving operations. And that’s not even looking at laws like the one in Oklahoma which doesn’t have this carve out. Edit: OK has a stricter form of this carve out for medical emergencies, I misspoke.
- lelandfe 4y ago
  OK does have that carve out, see my sibling comment.

31835843 4y ago

This presumes that every hospital in the US knows the laws. Far from the case.

altacc 4y ago
Their lawyers know the laws and they write hospital policies that stop them getting prosecuted and losing their license to operate, so will err on the side of the law, not patients.

lelandfe 4y ago

> All laws in place or being contemplated allow for abortive procedures in medical emergencies SB 612[0] in Oklahoma made abortions a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison. I'm not sure how many doctors will feel comfortable making that call. ...Especially considering HB 4327 then empowers citizens to stage witch hunts against those providers. Imagine developing a reputation for performing abortions in that situation. [0] Which defined a "medical emergency" as "a condition which cannot be remedied by delivery of the child in which an abortion is necessary to preserve the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered" – a high bar to clear. https://legiscan.com/OK/text/SB612/id/2564710 https://legiscan.com/OK/text/SB612/id/2564710

lelandfe 4y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/abortion-bans-patient-doctor-medical-advice https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/abortion-bans-... Article discussing this chilling effect.
kokanator 4y ago
Do you mean a stringent bar? A bar that is hard to identify? Full text of "emergency": “Medical emergency” means a condition which cannot be remedied by delivery of the child in which an abortion is necessary to preserve the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness or physical injury including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself." This is very clear a covers all possible situations where the pregnant woman's life would be in danger. This is very straight forward. If however, you mean to say it restricts abortions too far, you are arguing a different point.
- lelandfe 4y ago
  I believe you’re underselling how straightforward this is, and you’ve actually already got it a bit wrong: > covers all possible situations where the pregnant woman's life would be in danger The woman’s life being in danger is the second clause. The first is that an abortion is necessary to address it. It is a mighty task to prove that an abortion was necessary, and empowered citizens can frivolously bring lawsuits.
raptor99 4y ago
To me that's the beauty of the United States and the republic that we live in. If Oklahoma has laws and rules that you think are outrageous then move to a different state. On top of even that, if things are just too outrageous here to stand, then move out of the country, like all the media and celebrities that claimed they would move to Canada if and when certain people were elected.
- romellem 4y ago
  “Just move” seems to imply they made a choice to live there in the first place. Often that isn’t true. What is a 17 year born in Oklahoma to do? Telling them to “just move” when they probably have very little money of their own and probably no family support doesn’t seem very empathetic.

mattnewton 4y ago

This is a lot of room for selective enforcement even in the Mississippi law. All it takes are criminal penalties for a doctor to hesitate or even refuse to perform potentially life saving operations. And that’s not even looking at laws like the one in Oklahoma which doesn’t have this carve out. Edit: OK has a stricter form of this carve out for medical emergencies, I misspoke.

lelandfe 4y ago
OK does have that carve out, see my sibling comment.