6 ms·

Hearing the body-autonomy argument is pretty funny right now, given what the last 2 years have been like.

by zionic 4y ago

xpe 4y ago
The "body-autonomy argument" is not the only principle in play. COVID is a communicable disease. Vaccinating one person reduces the risk to others. An abortion is not a communicable disease.
rt4mn 4y ago
I'm not sure how to interpret your comment. Could you elaborate?
- daenz 4y ago
  I think they're referring to the hypocrisy of compelling vaccination on someone if you support the idea of bodily autonomy.
  - rt4mn 4y ago
    Thats what I thought as well, but since neither myself nor the comment I was replying to mentioned it, I was / am confused how the hypocrisy in question was relevant. I'm probably overthinking a throwaway internet comment.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >think they're referring to the hypocrisy of compelling vaccination on someone if you support the idea of bodily autonomy. One of those things is not like the others. That's a fallacious argument. No one threatened me with jail for not getting vaccinated and no one threatened the medical folks who gave me my vaccines with jail either. There are millions of people who may go to prison for providing a private, personal medical procedure. That's wrong. I'd note that Mississippi and Missouri have both charged women who had miscarriages with capital murder.
    - daenz 4y ago
      I don't think you're seeing the theme of bodily autonomy here. If the underlying argument for abortion is "my body my choice", then that same argument should logically apply to vaccinations.
      - nobody9999 4y ago
        >I don't think you're seeing the theme of bodily autonomy here. If the underlying argument for abortion is "my body my choice", then that same argument should logically apply to vaccinations. Like I said, no one threatened me (or anyone else, for that matter) with jail for getting (or not getting) vaccinated, did they? Nor was anyone threatened with jail for refusing to vaccinate people. Whereas, many state laws threaten prison (and even face the death penalty) for those who have or provide abortions. Go to Prison != Folks don't want to be around you if you're more likely to get them sick with a potentially deadly disease. So, no. It's not the same thing at all. If you can't see the difference, nothing I say will mean anything to you. I wish you the best.
        daenz 4y ago
        >no one threatened me (or anyone else, for that matter) with jail for getting (or not getting) vaccinated, did they? Yes, the covid vaccine has been used as a condition of probation, and for reduced sentences[0]. >Folks don't want to be around you if you're more likely to get them sick That does not supersede someone's bodily autonomy. If you are scared of being around unvaccinated people, don't go out in public. 0. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/us/ohio-judge-covid-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/us/ohio-judge-covid-vacci...
rafale 4y ago
Indeed, we are in the age of make your mind based on feelings then cherry pick your arguments afterthr fact.
- xpe 4y ago
  Just an age? This seems to part of the human condition. Making decisions intuitively can be useful. It is not necessarily wrong. It does have the benefit of being energy-efficient. :) See "Thinking Fast and Slow". In any case, I hope we can move beyond rationalizing, particularly as a deceptive technique.
AlexandrB 4y ago
I love how black and white these counterarguments are. If a vaccine had side effects anywhere near as severe as the symptoms you see in a "normal" pregnancy it would not be considered safe and I don't think you'd see it mandated anywhere for something like COVID. It's a also comparing a response to an acute global crisis to laws dealing with a routine medical issue (pregnancy) that ~50% of the population will experience in their lifetime.

Hearing the body-autonomy argument is pretty funny right now, given what the last 2 years have been like.

by zionic 4y ago

Hearing the body-autonomy argument is pretty funny right now, given what the last 2 years have been like.

xpe 4y ago

The "body-autonomy argument" is not the only principle in play. COVID is a communicable disease. Vaccinating one person reduces the risk to others. An abortion is not a communicable disease.

rt4mn 4y ago

I'm not sure how to interpret your comment. Could you elaborate?

daenz 4y ago
I think they're referring to the hypocrisy of compelling vaccination on someone if you support the idea of bodily autonomy.
- rt4mn 4y ago
  Thats what I thought as well, but since neither myself nor the comment I was replying to mentioned it, I was / am confused how the hypocrisy in question was relevant. I'm probably overthinking a throwaway internet comment.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >think they're referring to the hypocrisy of compelling vaccination on someone if you support the idea of bodily autonomy. One of those things is not like the others. That's a fallacious argument. No one threatened me with jail for not getting vaccinated and no one threatened the medical folks who gave me my vaccines with jail either. There are millions of people who may go to prison for providing a private, personal medical procedure. That's wrong. I'd note that Mississippi and Missouri have both charged women who had miscarriages with capital murder.
  - daenz 4y ago
    I don't think you're seeing the theme of bodily autonomy here. If the underlying argument for abortion is "my body my choice", then that same argument should logically apply to vaccinations.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >I don't think you're seeing the theme of bodily autonomy here. If the underlying argument for abortion is "my body my choice", then that same argument should logically apply to vaccinations. Like I said, no one threatened me (or anyone else, for that matter) with jail for getting (or not getting) vaccinated, did they? Nor was anyone threatened with jail for refusing to vaccinate people. Whereas, many state laws threaten prison (and even face the death penalty) for those who have or provide abortions. Go to Prison != Folks don't want to be around you if you're more likely to get them sick with a potentially deadly disease. So, no. It's not the same thing at all. If you can't see the difference, nothing I say will mean anything to you. I wish you the best.
      - daenz 4y ago
        >no one threatened me (or anyone else, for that matter) with jail for getting (or not getting) vaccinated, did they? Yes, the covid vaccine has been used as a condition of probation, and for reduced sentences[0]. >Folks don't want to be around you if you're more likely to get them sick That does not supersede someone's bodily autonomy. If you are scared of being around unvaccinated people, don't go out in public. 0. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/us/ohio-judge-covid-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/us/ohio-judge-covid-vacci...

rafale 4y ago

Indeed, we are in the age of make your mind based on feelings then cherry pick your arguments afterthr fact.

xpe 4y ago
Just an age? This seems to part of the human condition. Making decisions intuitively can be useful. It is not necessarily wrong. It does have the benefit of being energy-efficient. :) See "Thinking Fast and Slow". In any case, I hope we can move beyond rationalizing, particularly as a deceptive technique.

AlexandrB 4y ago

I love how black and white these counterarguments are. If a vaccine had side effects anywhere near as severe as the symptoms you see in a "normal" pregnancy it would not be considered safe and I don't think you'd see it mandated anywhere for something like COVID. It's a also comparing a response to an acute global crisis to laws dealing with a routine medical issue (pregnancy) that ~50% of the population will experience in their lifetime.