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Is IVF murder of children? Is a twin that consumed a twin in-utero a killer? Should we launch a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? Is

Is IVF murder of children? Is a twin that consumed a twin in-utero a killer? Should we launch a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? Is plan B murder of children? If yes, is contraception, including pulling out murder of children? Let's be real here, there is no 100% effective contraception method and out of 100s of millions of people having sex, probably a few million will get accidentally pregnant. "People should not have sex" - is not a viable argument, because it's not a thing people will stop doing. You sound like someone who thinks that women who have sex should be punished for being whores. So how about no uterus, no opinion? And kindly, hope you do not reproduce

codeguro 4y ago
> Is IVF murder of children? Is a twin that consumed a twin in-utero a killer? Should we launch a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? (1) That's a silly question. In-virtro fertilization is a series of procedures to help conceive a child. (2) Intent is often the focal point of Criminal Law and is generally shown by circumstantial evidence such as the acts or knowledge of the defendant. And so is ability; an unborn child has no intent or knowledge or ability to resist, so I'd argue no that it's not murder for a twin to consume her sibling in utero. Got any more "hardballs" for me, or are those the best you got? > Is plan B murder of children? If yes, is contraception, including pulling out murder of children? If a child was conceived, yes. Take a child that is in utero and the mother is 1 day away from delivery and takes a pill that poisons the child. Yes, it absolutely is murder. You think these are hard questions but they are not. The morality on the pro-life side is pretty cut and dry; any attempt to kill an innocent, healthy, viable human child is wrong. Period. Full-stop. Even in cases where the mother is in danger and needs to end the pregnancy; the child could simply be delivered. There is no need to kill the child, that's an extra and unnecessary and evil step you'd have to go out of the way to do. > Let's be real here, there is no 100% effective contraception method and out of 100s of millions of people having sex, probably a few million will get accidentally pregnant. Yes, and? Are you trying to say that the killings unwanted children should be OK? Are you saying that the value the life of those children should be hinged on how much they are loved by their parents? What are you trying to argue, exactly? Serious question. > You sound like someone who thinks that women who have sex should be punished for being whores. Nice strawman, but I'm right here. I think that women who have sex and conceive children should be held responsible for raising those children. You must think that women in general are pretty infantile and cannot bear any responsibility whatsoever. Are you some kind of misogynist? > So how about no uterus, no opinion? And kindly, hope you do not reproduce Why are you assuming my gender? I have 2 children by the way. Let me ask you, do YOU have a uterus? If not, then kindly shut the hell up while the big girls talk.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > > Is IVF murder of children? Is a twin that consumed a twin in-utero a killer? Should we launch a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? > (1) That’s a silly question. No, its not, and analysis of the trigger laws passed in anticipation of Roe falling has found that IVF is at risk under many of them (because they define a “pregnancy” as beginning at fertilization, not implantation) [0], and states with fetal homicide laws in place even before Roe have conducted investigations and even made charges in cases of miscarriages not due to procured abortion on various theories. It is only a silly question to people not paying any attention. [0] see, e.g., https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/abortion-trigger-ban-statutes-impacts-on-plan-b-birth-control-and-ivf-treatments/ https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/abortion-trigg...
  - codeguro 4y ago
    > One of the legislative initiatives that has been undertaken by several states is a statute creating a trigger ban on abortion, wherein the Supreme Court striking down Roe would immediately result in an automatic complete abortion ban statewide. Good. I think that laws that serve to protect defenseless children should be upheld. I do think that IVF should be reconsidered, but it appears that the intent of the law is to prevent children from dying, not to prevent couples who have trouble conceiving, from conceiving because of complications that may arise. I think those two are separate issues with different outcomes. I think a child that is failed to be conceived or dies during the process of being conceived is a fundamentally different issue to a procedure who's express and deliberate purpose is to end the life of the child.
    - jyounker 4y ago
      And yet fetuses created one way are entitled to protection and fetuses created the other way are not. Why do you feel this way?
      - codeguro 4y ago
        I think both types of children should be protected. Can't you read?

codeguro 4y ago

> Is IVF murder of children? Is a twin that consumed a twin in-utero a killer? Should we launch a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? (1) That's a silly question. In-virtro fertilization is a series of procedures to help conceive a child. (2) Intent is often the focal point of Criminal Law and is generally shown by circumstantial evidence such as the acts or knowledge of the defendant. And so is ability; an unborn child has no intent or knowledge or ability to resist, so I'd argue no that it's not murder for a twin to consume her sibling in utero. Got any more "hardballs" for me, or are those the best you got? > Is plan B murder of children? If yes, is contraception, including pulling out murder of children? If a child was conceived, yes. Take a child that is in utero and the mother is 1 day away from delivery and takes a pill that poisons the child. Yes, it absolutely is murder. You think these are hard questions but they are not. The morality on the pro-life side is pretty cut and dry; any attempt to kill an innocent, healthy, viable human child is wrong. Period. Full-stop. Even in cases where the mother is in danger and needs to end the pregnancy; the child could simply be delivered. There is no need to kill the child, that's an extra and unnecessary and evil step you'd have to go out of the way to do. > Let's be real here, there is no 100% effective contraception method and out of 100s of millions of people having sex, probably a few million will get accidentally pregnant. Yes, and? Are you trying to say that the killings unwanted children should be OK? Are you saying that the value the life of those children should be hinged on how much they are loved by their parents? What are you trying to argue, exactly? Serious question. > You sound like someone who thinks that women who have sex should be punished for being whores. Nice strawman, but I'm right here. I think that women who have sex and conceive children should be held responsible for raising those children. You must think that women in general are pretty infantile and cannot bear any responsibility whatsoever. Are you some kind of misogynist? > So how about no uterus, no opinion? And kindly, hope you do not reproduce Why are you assuming my gender? I have 2 children by the way. Let me ask you, do YOU have a uterus? If not, then kindly shut the hell up while the big girls talk.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> > Is IVF murder of children? Is a twin that consumed a twin in-utero a killer? Should we launch a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? > (1) That’s a silly question. No, its not, and analysis of the trigger laws passed in anticipation of Roe falling has found that IVF is at risk under many of them (because they define a “pregnancy” as beginning at fertilization, not implantation) [0], and states with fetal homicide laws in place even before Roe have conducted investigations and even made charges in cases of miscarriages not due to procured abortion on various theories. It is only a silly question to people not paying any attention. [0] see, e.g., https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/abortion-trigger-ban-statutes-impacts-on-plan-b-birth-control-and-ivf-treatments/ https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/abortion-trigg...
- codeguro 4y ago
  > One of the legislative initiatives that has been undertaken by several states is a statute creating a trigger ban on abortion, wherein the Supreme Court striking down Roe would immediately result in an automatic complete abortion ban statewide. Good. I think that laws that serve to protect defenseless children should be upheld. I do think that IVF should be reconsidered, but it appears that the intent of the law is to prevent children from dying, not to prevent couples who have trouble conceiving, from conceiving because of complications that may arise. I think those two are separate issues with different outcomes. I think a child that is failed to be conceived or dies during the process of being conceived is a fundamentally different issue to a procedure who's express and deliberate purpose is to end the life of the child.
  - jyounker 4y ago
    And yet fetuses created one way are entitled to protection and fetuses created the other way are not. Why do you feel this way?
    - codeguro 4y ago
      I think both types of children should be protected. Can't you read?