4 ms·

Why is it a surprise that the Catholic Church is against abortion? This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short. It would be quite a big thing for

Why is it a surprise that the Catholic Church is against abortion? This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short. It would be quite a big thing for a catholic to turn a blind eye to and not consider when voting.

kgwxd 4y ago
giaour 4y ago
> This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short. You are incorrect, but this is also a specious argument. The list of religious that were anti-slavery was short at the outset of the 19th century and a mile long by the outset of the 20th. Church doctrine is not immune to influence by popular sentiment.
mola 4y ago
This is not what OP said. He was surprise to hear a highly political sermon where earlier that was not the standard.
- brokenkebab2 4y ago
  It's common to say "political" when a topic in question is challenged. But everything can be. Zeitgeist, and context changes, so the very same sermon becomes "political". For what I know Catholic position on abortion didn't change from OP's childhood. His perception probably did.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> Why is it a surprise that the Catholic Church is against abortion? What's surprising is the American Catholic priesthood tends to go after pro-choice politicians, but not pro-death-penalty ones, despite the church seeing both as similarly objectionable. The political bent is fairly new. The Pope has messaged that he'd rather they butt out. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/world/europe/pope-francis-biden-abortion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/world/europe/pope-francis...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > What’s surprising is the American Catholic priesthood tends to go after pro-choice politicians, but not pro-death-penalty ones, despite the church seeing both as similarly objectionable. [EDIT: This first paragraph is incorrect as is pointed out in a response; it is left unchanged for context of the discussion.] They are not viewed as “similarly objectionable”. The death penalty is viewed as being within the legitimate power of government doctrinally, but the present leadership of the Church views prudentially that the conditions which allow it do not occur in the modern world. Direct abortion is viewed as doctrinally prohibited. This is an important theological distinction because the Church heirarchy is viewed (borrowing some language from law) as having binding authority on doctrine, but only (very strongly) persuasive authority on prudential application of doctrine to particular material contexts. That being said, you are correct that the political actions of the American Catholic heirarchy (more the bishops than the priesthood, and not all of them) are rather unbalanced (and not just on this pair of issues) in a way which is not easily explained by any coherent appeal to the actual social teaching of the Catholic Church.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - giaour 4y ago
    > They are not viewed as “similarly objectionable”. The death penalty is viewed as being within the legitimate power of government doctrinally Respectfully, no. The catechism reads, "the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person"[0]. This is a recent revision, and what you say reflects what was officially taught until 2017. [0]: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM
    - yepguy 4y ago
      "[..] it has been infallibly taught by the ordinary magisterium of the Church that the death penalty is not intrinsically wrong. Not even a pope can reverse this teaching." [0] [0]: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/01/20/capital-punishment-and-the-infallibility-of-the-ordinary-magisterium/ https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/01/20/capital-punis...

kgwxd 4y ago

giaour 4y ago

> This list of religions that are ok with abolition is short. You are incorrect, but this is also a specious argument. The list of religious that were anti-slavery was short at the outset of the 19th century and a mile long by the outset of the 20th. Church doctrine is not immune to influence by popular sentiment.

mola 4y ago

This is not what OP said. He was surprise to hear a highly political sermon where earlier that was not the standard.

brokenkebab2 4y ago
It's common to say "political" when a topic in question is challenged. But everything can be. Zeitgeist, and context changes, so the very same sermon becomes "political". For what I know Catholic position on abortion didn't change from OP's childhood. His perception probably did.

ceejayoz 4y ago

> Why is it a surprise that the Catholic Church is against abortion? What's surprising is the American Catholic priesthood tends to go after pro-choice politicians, but not pro-death-penalty ones, despite the church seeing both as similarly objectionable. The political bent is fairly new. The Pope has messaged that he'd rather they butt out. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/world/europe/pope-francis-biden-abortion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/world/europe/pope-francis...

dragonwriter 4y ago
> What’s surprising is the American Catholic priesthood tends to go after pro-choice politicians, but not pro-death-penalty ones, despite the church seeing both as similarly objectionable. [EDIT: This first paragraph is incorrect as is pointed out in a response; it is left unchanged for context of the discussion.] They are not viewed as “similarly objectionable”. The death penalty is viewed as being within the legitimate power of government doctrinally, but the present leadership of the Church views prudentially that the conditions which allow it do not occur in the modern world. Direct abortion is viewed as doctrinally prohibited. This is an important theological distinction because the Church heirarchy is viewed (borrowing some language from law) as having binding authority on doctrine, but only (very strongly) persuasive authority on prudential application of doctrine to particular material contexts. That being said, you are correct that the political actions of the American Catholic heirarchy (more the bishops than the priesthood, and not all of them) are rather unbalanced (and not just on this pair of issues) in a way which is not easily explained by any coherent appeal to the actual social teaching of the Catholic Church.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- giaour 4y ago
  > They are not viewed as “similarly objectionable”. The death penalty is viewed as being within the legitimate power of government doctrinally Respectfully, no. The catechism reads, "the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person"[0]. This is a recent revision, and what you say reflects what was officially taught until 2017. [0]: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM
  - yepguy 4y ago
    "[..] it has been infallibly taught by the ordinary magisterium of the Church that the death penalty is not intrinsically wrong. Not even a pope can reverse this teaching." [0] [0]: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/01/20/capital-punishment-and-the-infallibility-of-the-ordinary-magisterium/ https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/01/20/capital-punis...