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There are non religious, anti abortion arguments. I've read some version of these before. They have shifted public opinion I believe more than religious argumen

There are non religious, anti abortion arguments. I've read some version of these before. They have shifted public opinion I believe more than religious arguments. I've read some version of these before, but there are probably others I'm skipping. To summarize: - We need those babies to offset huge demographic changes in the US population. Not enough babies are being born to offset the aging population. - Women having abortions earlier in life, and having babies later, is negatively affecting the health of the next generation. Autism, Downs and other diseases are all linked to the age of the mother. - Abortion advocates do themselves no favours by advocating for abortion almost up to the moment of brith. Its about public opinion, and the opinion on when a baby becomes viable has shift due to science. Babies can survive outside the womb much earlier. -Abortion takes out about 600,000+ babies per year in the US. About 40% of all US abortions are from African American communities. Whether you think this is good or bad, depends if you view abortion to be a good or bad thing. A lot of racists eugenists are hating this decision. So they're not happy with this either. So abortion can be viewed as racist policy because its end effect is killing so many black babies.

InTheArena 4y ago
The abortion maximalist position, as well as the pro-life maximalist positions, do no one any good here. Someone in Mississippi came up with the idea of grabbing what by all appearances is a pretty mainstream European law, and applying it - and waiting for the inevitable lawsuit and overreach. And abortion has absolutely had significant impacts on racism - but that racism pre-dates abortion.
lostdog 4y ago
Then why is no one doing anything to support babies if we want so many? Here's how to incentivise having children: - Remove fear of healthcare costs. All children can use Medicare. Cover pregnancy too. - Stop worries about schools. Bring all schools up to an acceptable level. Hire teachers at underperforming schools until the number of adults is high enough to handle extreme bad behavior and give every child a shot at a decent classroom experience. - Paid leave. Make it feasible to have a kid in your 20s without tanking your career. Have it come from social security, so you don't have to plan your pregnancy around which company you want to work for. - Fix housing costs. Make it easy to afford a nice house in your 20s, so having a kid doesn't feel like adding to an ongoing disaster. The list of things you could do to encourage having kids goes on and on. Of course you could just force pregnancies on the unwilling instead, if that's the kind of person you want to be.
- dukeofdoom 4y ago
  Not that I disagree with you, all of those things would be nice. But its kind of like the "let them eat cake" proposal. - Who is going to pay for this, when the glut of your most productive workers (tax base) is about to retire. US demographics don't support a larger tax base, but a smaller into the near future. - People don't have babies because they live in cities. And cities are expensive to live, and space is at a premium. US already has near the highest standard of living in the world. Yet it can't overcome cities being expensive places to live. This is kind of universal. - We are facing a period where Globalization is coming under sever strain. This points to lower standards of living in the future not higher. Look at the price of energy in Europe for instance. All the things you propose would require more people to pay more taxes, at a time when inflation and cost of living is going up. I do believe that the birth rate will go up, but that might be if the supply chains break apart due to conflicts around the world. Then more people will be forced to move out to country just to survive. And having more space would lead to more babies being born, since kids are useful on farms.
  - progman32 4y ago
    > - Who is going to pay for this If we're reducing this to money, who will pay for the ongoing costs of unwanted children and the results of the risk factors they'll be exposed to?
    - lostdog 4y ago
      Yeah, my list was just a list of things that kids need. "How are we going to pay for this???" really is just a subtle "fuck you it's your problem now" to the parents.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

InTheArena 4y ago

The abortion maximalist position, as well as the pro-life maximalist positions, do no one any good here. Someone in Mississippi came up with the idea of grabbing what by all appearances is a pretty mainstream European law, and applying it - and waiting for the inevitable lawsuit and overreach. And abortion has absolutely had significant impacts on racism - but that racism pre-dates abortion.

lostdog 4y ago

Then why is no one doing anything to support babies if we want so many? Here's how to incentivise having children: - Remove fear of healthcare costs. All children can use Medicare. Cover pregnancy too. - Stop worries about schools. Bring all schools up to an acceptable level. Hire teachers at underperforming schools until the number of adults is high enough to handle extreme bad behavior and give every child a shot at a decent classroom experience. - Paid leave. Make it feasible to have a kid in your 20s without tanking your career. Have it come from social security, so you don't have to plan your pregnancy around which company you want to work for. - Fix housing costs. Make it easy to afford a nice house in your 20s, so having a kid doesn't feel like adding to an ongoing disaster. The list of things you could do to encourage having kids goes on and on. Of course you could just force pregnancies on the unwilling instead, if that's the kind of person you want to be.

dukeofdoom 4y ago
Not that I disagree with you, all of those things would be nice. But its kind of like the "let them eat cake" proposal. - Who is going to pay for this, when the glut of your most productive workers (tax base) is about to retire. US demographics don't support a larger tax base, but a smaller into the near future. - People don't have babies because they live in cities. And cities are expensive to live, and space is at a premium. US already has near the highest standard of living in the world. Yet it can't overcome cities being expensive places to live. This is kind of universal. - We are facing a period where Globalization is coming under sever strain. This points to lower standards of living in the future not higher. Look at the price of energy in Europe for instance. All the things you propose would require more people to pay more taxes, at a time when inflation and cost of living is going up. I do believe that the birth rate will go up, but that might be if the supply chains break apart due to conflicts around the world. Then more people will be forced to move out to country just to survive. And having more space would lead to more babies being born, since kids are useful on farms.
- progman32 4y ago
  > - Who is going to pay for this If we're reducing this to money, who will pay for the ongoing costs of unwanted children and the results of the risk factors they'll be exposed to?
  - lostdog 4y ago
    Yeah, my list was just a list of things that kids need. "How are we going to pay for this???" really is just a subtle "fuck you it's your problem now" to the parents.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]