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We don't really, here in Europe. WhatsApp is the main communication method.. I think SMS is still so popular in the US because it's a fallback for iMessage. But

We don't really, here in Europe. WhatsApp is the main communication method.. I think SMS is still so popular in the US because it's a fallback for iMessage. But here the levels of iPhone users are much lower. So for me 2fa is pretty much the only thing I still use SMS for. Which makes a suspicious sms stand out a lot more. I wish we'd stop using it for 2fa though because it was never meant to be hardened for this.

ghaff 4y ago
Heavy SMS usage predates iMessage in the US. But iMessage was presumably a big contributor to making unlimited SMS messages the norm on most phone plans. In any case, there was just never a big incentive in the US to use anything other than iMessage when available and fall back to SMS otherwise. And without that incentive "no one" (who isn't texting people overseas) bothers to use different apps.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Oh this is true here too. SMS usage was huge pre-WhatsApp. What happened was that the networks were capitalising on that. SMS was historically quite expensive so it became a big cash cow. SMS bits must have been made of gold because they were hundreds of times more expensive than other bits. WhatsApp completely killed SMS usage here however. Leading to some carriers wanting to charge extra for WhatsApp usage to recuperate some of the 'lost' revenue. This sparked a big discussion about net neutrality which was then enshrined in EU law, so the discussion was finished. By this time, SMS became practically free but it was too late.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Interesting. It looks like WhatsApp predated iMessage in the US but it never really took off. Maybe US text bundles were more consumer-friendly in the US? Though I don't really remember it that way. (I didn't do a lot of texting though and mostly expensed the handful of work-related texting I did do; friends didn't really text at that time.)
digitallyfree 4y ago
The main issue with WhatsApp you're locked to a single provider and their service (unless SMS which works across different carriers), as well as their privacy practices. In a way this is similar to people moving away from email to proprietary messaging systems instead - while you gain security and functionality benefits, you lose in terms of choice and compatibility. Sadly alternatives haven't really gained traction.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  I agree, I don't like whatsapp. Though I do like it more than SMS. One of the things I like about it is group messaging. The seamless images/files, the encryptuon... And I don't think most mainstream users feel this as a lockin. After all whatever phone they can buy they can install whatsapp on it (and soon even import their hitory!). Personally I prefer Matrix. Not a fan of Signal either due to the ban on 3rd party apps.
  - digitallyfree 4y ago
    Yeah I personally use Matrix myself, I run a selfhosted instance for internal family use. They're the only people actually willing to use it - everyone else is on WhatsApp and similar services.
lxgr 4y ago
> We don't really, here in Europe. At least Germany and Austria heavily rely on SMS-OTP for all kinds of services, banking and otherwise. I've never received an OTP via WhatsApp. Austria even has an eIDAS-compatible e-signature scheme based on SMS-OTP that allows people to create a legally binding PDF signature using SMS-OTP and a static password...
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Yes like I said for such services, yes. Here in Spain it's used sometimes too. Though once a month would be the maximum I'd receive one.
herbst 4y ago
> We don't really, here in Europe. WhatsApp is the main communication method. This is only partially true. There are also countries like France where WhatsApp only has a Market share of about 22%. Switzerland is very split too, I personally know more people using signal or telegram than 'still using' WhatsApp.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Oh really? I have many colleagues in France and they're all on WA. What else do they use? Is there a local app? I know France loves their local things :)
  - jkepler 4y ago
    The French government adopted Matrix for all their internal and inter-ministerial communications, to avoid dependence on foreign corporate products. https://archive.fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix_french_state/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix_french... Most people I know use WhatsApp (I refuse, and since I run Lineage OS without Google services I simply tell people my phone doesn't support it), Signal, or Telegram.
  - herbst 4y ago
    I've just googlet that. Statistica and co show a number of 22% for France in WhatsApp usage. Reality is if you ask someone 'do you have whatsapp' or just message them a lot more than 22% will have WhatsApp in a way or another I guess. Buts it's not what they choose if someone asks which app they prefer. Just as nearly everyone I know has telegram but I highly doubt it's their main way of communicating for most.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
I'm seeing more services using email for 2FA nowadays. SMS is actually easier, with email I have to go into the outlook app.
rr888 4y ago
Dont you need a phone number for whatsapp though?
avgcorrection 4y ago
Bunch of humbug. I was once away in Europe (many years ago) and everyone used Whatsapp. But now, here in Europe (the same place that I came from), no one uses it (or at least no one tells me about it). I was of course in a different country in Europe. Since it’s a mini-continent and all that.
kingrazor 4y ago
I use SMS because it's been the default messaging solution on every non-iphone I've ever owned. My first few phones were all "dumb" phones so SMS was the only option. On my android phones I've always just used the built-in messaging app which is typically SMS and switches to MMS when doing group texts or sending pictures. I've never had a need to install any 3rd party apps for messaging.

ghaff 4y ago

Heavy SMS usage predates iMessage in the US. But iMessage was presumably a big contributor to making unlimited SMS messages the norm on most phone plans. In any case, there was just never a big incentive in the US to use anything other than iMessage when available and fall back to SMS otherwise. And without that incentive "no one" (who isn't texting people overseas) bothers to use different apps.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Oh this is true here too. SMS usage was huge pre-WhatsApp. What happened was that the networks were capitalising on that. SMS was historically quite expensive so it became a big cash cow. SMS bits must have been made of gold because they were hundreds of times more expensive than other bits. WhatsApp completely killed SMS usage here however. Leading to some carriers wanting to charge extra for WhatsApp usage to recuperate some of the 'lost' revenue. This sparked a big discussion about net neutrality which was then enshrined in EU law, so the discussion was finished. By this time, SMS became practically free but it was too late.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Interesting. It looks like WhatsApp predated iMessage in the US but it never really took off. Maybe US text bundles were more consumer-friendly in the US? Though I don't really remember it that way. (I didn't do a lot of texting though and mostly expensed the handful of work-related texting I did do; friends didn't really text at that time.)

digitallyfree 4y ago

The main issue with WhatsApp you're locked to a single provider and their service (unless SMS which works across different carriers), as well as their privacy practices. In a way this is similar to people moving away from email to proprietary messaging systems instead - while you gain security and functionality benefits, you lose in terms of choice and compatibility. Sadly alternatives haven't really gained traction.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
I agree, I don't like whatsapp. Though I do like it more than SMS. One of the things I like about it is group messaging. The seamless images/files, the encryptuon... And I don't think most mainstream users feel this as a lockin. After all whatever phone they can buy they can install whatsapp on it (and soon even import their hitory!). Personally I prefer Matrix. Not a fan of Signal either due to the ban on 3rd party apps.
- digitallyfree 4y ago
  Yeah I personally use Matrix myself, I run a selfhosted instance for internal family use. They're the only people actually willing to use it - everyone else is on WhatsApp and similar services.

lxgr 4y ago

> We don't really, here in Europe. At least Germany and Austria heavily rely on SMS-OTP for all kinds of services, banking and otherwise. I've never received an OTP via WhatsApp. Austria even has an eIDAS-compatible e-signature scheme based on SMS-OTP that allows people to create a legally binding PDF signature using SMS-OTP and a static password...

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Yes like I said for such services, yes. Here in Spain it's used sometimes too. Though once a month would be the maximum I'd receive one.

herbst 4y ago

> We don't really, here in Europe. WhatsApp is the main communication method. This is only partially true. There are also countries like France where WhatsApp only has a Market share of about 22%. Switzerland is very split too, I personally know more people using signal or telegram than 'still using' WhatsApp.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Oh really? I have many colleagues in France and they're all on WA. What else do they use? Is there a local app? I know France loves their local things :)
- jkepler 4y ago
  The French government adopted Matrix for all their internal and inter-ministerial communications, to avoid dependence on foreign corporate products. https://archive.fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix_french_state/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/matrix_french... Most people I know use WhatsApp (I refuse, and since I run Lineage OS without Google services I simply tell people my phone doesn't support it), Signal, or Telegram.
- herbst 4y ago
  I've just googlet that. Statistica and co show a number of 22% for France in WhatsApp usage. Reality is if you ask someone 'do you have whatsapp' or just message them a lot more than 22% will have WhatsApp in a way or another I guess. Buts it's not what they choose if someone asks which app they prefer. Just as nearly everyone I know has telegram but I highly doubt it's their main way of communicating for most.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

I'm seeing more services using email for 2FA nowadays. SMS is actually easier, with email I have to go into the outlook app.

rr888 4y ago

Dont you need a phone number for whatsapp though?

avgcorrection 4y ago

Bunch of humbug. I was once away in Europe (many years ago) and everyone used Whatsapp. But now, here in Europe (the same place that I came from), no one uses it (or at least no one tells me about it). I was of course in a different country in Europe. Since it’s a mini-continent and all that.

kingrazor 4y ago

I use SMS because it's been the default messaging solution on every non-iphone I've ever owned. My first few phones were all "dumb" phones so SMS was the only option. On my android phones I've always just used the built-in messaging app which is typically SMS and switches to MMS when doing group texts or sending pictures. I've never had a need to install any 3rd party apps for messaging.