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> It isn’t about religion. It’s about power and control. We need to stop pretending it has anything to do with Jesus and everything to do with power over others

> It isn’t about religion. It’s about power and control. We need to stop pretending it has anything to do with Jesus and everything to do with power over others. Nietzsche is more relevant here than Jesus. We, as a society, need to stop constantly creating straw men like this. Opposition to abortion is certainly about religion, or at least morality. Sure some politician can exploit morality to cynically gain power to accomplish other things, but that doesn't mean the voters are doing that. The voters are just caught in (many) moral dilemmas, and are therefore forced to make bad choices.

ineptech 4y ago
> Only a quarter of evangelicals in the United States believe abortion should be illegal in all cases, according to a new poll showing that a majority of self-identified Christians in the U.S. identify as “pro-choice” and less than half of evangelicals identify as “pro-life.” https://www.christianpost.com/news/less-than-half-of-us-evangelicals-identify-as-pro-life-new-poll-suggests.html https://www.christianpost.com/news/less-than-half-of-us-evan... It's not a "religious issue" when the members of the religion are split along party lines just like everyone else.
- rockemsockem 4y ago
  If you don't believe that there is some immortal soul endowed at conception then it is extremely unlikely that you'll oppose abortion. It is absolutely religious.
  - ineptech 4y ago
    Why isn't it a "science issue" because the pro-choice side is based on science? Or an "age issue" because old people are far more pro-life than young people? I'm not here to argue semantics. The point I'm here to make is that the people who call it a religious issue are trying to claim legal protection that is undeserved. "That law violates my religion!" is not a compelling argument when half of your religion supports it.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Why isn't it a "science issue" because the pro-choice side is based on science? What now? Has "science" become a nonsense word that only used to lend authority to nonscientific policy? > The point I'm here to make is that the people who call it a religious issue are trying to claim legal protection that is undeserved. That's not what's going on at all. What's actually happening is something along the lines of "my religion says X is morally wrong, therefore I support making X illegal" (or more accurately "my religion teaches Y, which I understand makes X morally wrong, therefore I support making X illegal").
      - ineptech 4y ago
        There are lots of issues where there are religious people on both sides. Take immigration for example: there are Christians who support looser immigration laws for religious reasons, and other Christians who have religious reasons to disagree. You can say that makes immigration a religious issue, if you like - I won't argue. (Not because I agree, but because arguing over semantics is boring) Separate from that, there are issues where the religious people are pretty much all on the same side. My point is, the pro-life side frames abortion as the latter, when it is actually the former. And they do this not out of confusion or misunderstanding, but as a politically useful act. It helps their cause to frame abortion as a religious issue, because if it weren't that, it would be a medical issue or a rights issue or a privacy issue, and virtually any other framing hurts their case. Like I said, I'm not here to argue semantics. I just thought it was worth pointing out how divided the religious are on this issue, mainly because I wasn't aware until I looked it up.

ineptech 4y ago

> Only a quarter of evangelicals in the United States believe abortion should be illegal in all cases, according to a new poll showing that a majority of self-identified Christians in the U.S. identify as “pro-choice” and less than half of evangelicals identify as “pro-life.” https://www.christianpost.com/news/less-than-half-of-us-evangelicals-identify-as-pro-life-new-poll-suggests.html https://www.christianpost.com/news/less-than-half-of-us-evan... It's not a "religious issue" when the members of the religion are split along party lines just like everyone else.

rockemsockem 4y ago
If you don't believe that there is some immortal soul endowed at conception then it is extremely unlikely that you'll oppose abortion. It is absolutely religious.
- ineptech 4y ago
  Why isn't it a "science issue" because the pro-choice side is based on science? Or an "age issue" because old people are far more pro-life than young people? I'm not here to argue semantics. The point I'm here to make is that the people who call it a religious issue are trying to claim legal protection that is undeserved. "That law violates my religion!" is not a compelling argument when half of your religion supports it.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Why isn't it a "science issue" because the pro-choice side is based on science? What now? Has "science" become a nonsense word that only used to lend authority to nonscientific policy? > The point I'm here to make is that the people who call it a religious issue are trying to claim legal protection that is undeserved. That's not what's going on at all. What's actually happening is something along the lines of "my religion says X is morally wrong, therefore I support making X illegal" (or more accurately "my religion teaches Y, which I understand makes X morally wrong, therefore I support making X illegal").
    - ineptech 4y ago
      There are lots of issues where there are religious people on both sides. Take immigration for example: there are Christians who support looser immigration laws for religious reasons, and other Christians who have religious reasons to disagree. You can say that makes immigration a religious issue, if you like - I won't argue. (Not because I agree, but because arguing over semantics is boring) Separate from that, there are issues where the religious people are pretty much all on the same side. My point is, the pro-life side frames abortion as the latter, when it is actually the former. And they do this not out of confusion or misunderstanding, but as a politically useful act. It helps their cause to frame abortion as a religious issue, because if it weren't that, it would be a medical issue or a rights issue or a privacy issue, and virtually any other framing hurts their case. Like I said, I'm not here to argue semantics. I just thought it was worth pointing out how divided the religious are on this issue, mainly because I wasn't aware until I looked it up.